Thursday, June 12, 1997 at 9 PM ET in the Kitchen Conference Room -- Cake Decorating with Dolores777 and Pwd sugar - " Why do the Brides wait so long to order their cakes?" Lots of ideas to make order-taking easier. 

Pigcake Photo is on this week's chat...see below.

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DOLORES' PART:

ORDERING: Ideally, the wedding cake order should be placed with you around 3 months in advance. In some cases, even earlier...when I'm booked, I'm booked! One never knows how far ahead we will get booked. One huge cake can do it. If there is a lot of preparation to be done, then the cake should be ordered WELL in advance. Six months is not at all too early.

As many of you know, I have a bakery (cakes, candies and cookies ONLY)...So early ordering doesn't always happen for me! I have had brides breeze in here the week of... Usually this is when they discover that Aunt Suzy can't do it after all. (Probably because she priced the pans and material she'd need and decided this would be one BIG gift! Then she backs out). Speaking of bakeries, lately people order later than they ever use to. It is not unusual for them to order 1-5 weeks ahead at all. Especially for small weddings. I suppose they are so busy they just don't get around to it. I have given up on making special appointments for them. They rarely show up. This use to be a fine way to handle wedding cake ordering - not just when I worked from my home, but until recently in my shop also. I loved sitting sown with the bride and building a beautiful new design. I enjoyed fitting the cake to bride's personality. I could do so much more. But in this area everyone is so busy they have left no time for themselves at all. I'm sure this is the reason.

BAKERIES: A warning...don't leave brides alone with your picture album or wedding cake books either. One local baker had purchased a book from us just 2 weeks before. He came in and said a bride walked out with his new book when he went to the back for something for another customer. Just think if that had been his prize picture album!!! Show your album only if you are certain you can devote your undivided attention to the order.

ON THE SUBJECT OF FAMILY AND FRIENDS - and YOU doing a FREE cake: This can lead to all kinds of future hard feelings (usually on your part) because you either didn't get paid or charge so little you feel like a fool. First I determine in my own mind just how "close" I am to this person. Would I give them a "regular-priced" wedding present of, say $50.00. Or is this person so close that I would give them more. What "favors" might I owe this person. If I would usually give them a $50.00 gift, then I give them $50.00 off of the regular price of the cake. I have a special friend who went <FAR> out of her way to show off my cakes (up and down the streets in town even!). When her son had a small wedding, I made the cake for free. When her daughter later got married and had a wedding for 300 guests, I gave her $100.00 off the regular price. It is best if you can tell your family or friend right away how much you are willing to discount their cake. BE BUSINESS-LIKE And treat any contracts as a business with them the same as with strangers. when it comes to your pricing. People aren't perfect, though we would like to think that all those close to us are. I have a friend...noted for over-spending. She and her daughter ordered a huge fancy wedding cake. When it came time for final payment the day came and went. I called her and pointed out that the total was now due. She told me she was just busy and hadn't managed to send it. At my 2nd and 3rd call, she told me the same thing. I suggested that I send my daughter to her and she could giver her the check. This she did and we ARE still friends. There can be a very thin line at times. I am glad we are still friends. PRICING & PAYMENTS: We had covered this thoroughly last winter. Pwd sugar devoted a lot of her energy to showing you her method for pricing. But I think it is best to go over this again:

MY METHOD: I require $50.00 down-payment when the order is placed. More if I have a lot of special flowers, lace points, etc. to do for it. The final payment is due 3 weeks before the wedding date. This is to be certain the check has cleared the bank. Two weeks isn't enough HERE. If payment has not been made as agreed upon, they must then pay me cash or money order (or I accept charge cards at any time). So many people now do cakes that you should never depend on having a firm order until after payment has been made. As Pwd sugar does, I also have a contract form....not that they read it usually! We go over the payment part with them. Also the part where they list who is going to bring back our setup material too. These items must be returned to us the Monday after the wedding WASHED....or penalties are due (and amounts are listed on the contract).

Ising C: i use a contract for wedding cakes that state no refunds 1 week before the wedding date

CAUTION: Always be certain you have ADDRESSES when you are using your expensive fountain setup! For that matter, also be sure you have names and phone numbers for others involved, such as florist, photographer etc. Once or twice it has come down to my calling one of these numbers to find out the new number or address of the party when they've forgotten to inform me. PHOTOS: Nice to have the photographer's name and ph. Number so you can call for a photo if you would like one too. I prefer to deal straight with them when ordering photos. Some photographers will give you a discount.

SETUP MATERIAL DEPOSIT: ALLWAYS!!! Make sure you charge a deposit on setup material in the amount sufficient for replacement! This is part of the total due 3 weeks BEFORE the wedding for me. I DO NOT hold checks. This amount is deposited and then I give it back in the SAME payment form they gave it to me...cash for cash, check for check and credit card for credit card...

Have you tried the internet message boards? Here is one good one. Even mentions cake decorating! Mimi's entire web site is interesting! So many LINKS and SO many recipes! http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/wwwboard/

Here is a SUBSTITUTIONS page...for altitude and many other measures: http://shell.surfsouth.com/~sdove/recsubs.html

Another: http://www.kitchenlink.com/wwwboard/tklcc.html One of my most favorites: http://www.ichef.com/message_boards.html 

PWD SUGAR'S PART:

" Why do the brides wait so long to order their cakes?" Lots of ideas to make order-taking easier.

First thing tonight - I want to let you know our most talented Dolores has written a book you will all want. It has so much information in it that is practical. She has done a superb job of assembling this information so it is easily accessible for you. I haven't had time to read it all yet but the index has allowed me to read a few of the articles. I have flipped through it several times and believe me this is the best practical wedding book I have seen.

Dolores please tell them how they can order the new book and how much it costs.

Have you looked through any of the calendars that are provided for the brides in the brides books, magazines, Wilton wedding planning guide, Martha Stewart's wedding book, and etc. ??????

These calendars are what the new brides go by. They have never done this before and the bride and her mother totally depend on these commercial publications to know how to arrange their schedules.

The Wilton wedding planning guide tells them to order their cake 2 months before the wedding. Even they put ordering the cake as one of the last things to be arranged for.

The new Martha Stewart wedding book tells the brides to order their cake 4 to 6 months ahead The book weddings A CELEBRATION by Clark tells them to order 6 to 8 weeks before the wedding. Dallas/Ft Worth bride & groom states "Start shopping for your cake about 4 months before the wedding." Most of these new brides do not know what is available to them in sugar fantasies. They know mom bakes a cake and they eat it that night. So they assume we have verrrrrry big ovens and we bake their cake on Friday and deliver it on Saturday. Therefore unless someone further up the priority list on their schedule tells them "if you want Earlene to do your cake you better book now because she books up early" they won't know to call you early. Network with the other businesses in your area so that they will help you to help the brides. After all this helps you as well as the bride. I have had many brides who were very disappointed because they could not have the cake they wanted. When you offer designs and styles that no one else in town can do - they will seek you our early.

Dolores777: that won't happen in MY neighborhood LOL I'm lucky if they order 1 month in advance

WHEN THEY COME TO SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO. OTHERWISE CHECK YOU OUT Do you offer them samples of your cake flavors? When I have extra batter when baking the wedding cakes I try to bake a small loaf for taste samples. I cut this loaf into small pieces and wrap each piece in a small piece of plastic wrap. These pieces go into a zip lock bag marked with the flavor and date and when a couple wants to sample flavors I just pull one piece from each flavor bag for them to sample. It takes a little bit of time to wrap them all - but is very quick to pull them from the freezer as you need them. They store easily in the freezer door and you have used your extra batter wisely. DO YOU HAVE PICTURES FOR THEM TO SEE ACTUAL CAKES YOU HAVE DONE? Again I cannot impress upon you how important it is that you learn to take good pictures of your own cakes. Those pictures will build your business. They are the first impression the bride will have of what you can do and how professional you are.

DO YOU HAVE NAMES OR NUMBERS WITH YOUR PICTURES. I have found that the only way I can keep me organized is to name the styles of cakes. For instance all of the cakes that have cornelli or soto on them are named Christine. The cakes that have the same design on the sides but are stacked different and have different flowers are say Christine # 1 - 2 and etc. All of the cakes that have basketweave are named basketweave and they go from basketweave # 1 to # 1-8. All of the cakes with bows are named with bows in the name such as bows and bells, bows #1 to bows #4-5 or bows and birds. Once a bride finds a side design she likes she then has several pictures that she can select from for set up style. This also makes it much easier when a bride cannot make up her mind and wants to think about her final decision and call you back. Names and numbers will allow you to know exactly which cake she is talking about. I also have all of my pictures arranged alphabetically and numerically for ease in re-locating what the bride wants. When you are creating her special cake and she has selected the borders from one cake, and the sides designs from two cakes and the flowers from another cake you will need to be able to locate those pictures quickly. Hopefully you won't have too many brides like that. I also include prices with my pictures so the brides can choose something within their budget. I know bronnie told me that she charges for her bridal consultation time. If the bride books with her she waives that charge. Do any of the rest of you charge for this service? I have given this some serious thought but have not done this yet.

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