WELCOME SWEET SUGAR CHATTERS - THIS IS THE CAKE DECORATING CHAT HOUR OUR TOPIC TONIGHT IS EGGS-ACT INFORMATION ABOUT EGGS IN OUR CAKES AND ICINGS.

WHERE DO YOU FIND THE CHAT TOPICS FOR THE MONTH? Keyword - cooking club - click on the chat topic and scroll to find the topics being discussed for the month. Or go to cooks school - click - double click on cake decorating online and then double click on discuss cake decorating and find a special topic for the cake decorating schedule plus lots of other interesting information. You may offer your comments, suggestions, and ask questions here.

Don't forget to turn on your log to record our chat: to do : in your menu, click on file, then on log manager, click on open log.......save as any name wherever you want. After you exit AOL you can use any word processor to read it. I keep a folder titled cake chats just for this.

Dolores is fishing this week and hopefully getting some much needed rest. 

Tonight's topic about eggs and their safety I hope will be helpful to you. I certainly learned a lot in researching this. At the end of the egg info I have a diabetic cake and icing recipe for you.

We had some major discussion during the Sunday night sharing at the ices show about the use of fresh egg whites. I gave information by what I had done and heard for years. Some of that was misunderstood so I decided to get some information that would really give us the facts instead of what we had heard. I went to the egg board location on the www and here is that location http://www.aeb.org/safety/index.html and then I called their phone number 847-296-7043 and talked to Elisa for more information specifically about our sugar products. These are some of the things that I learned. If you want all of their info go to their web location and copy and paste it into your word processor for reference. (there is a lot of info) in talking with Elisa she gave me the following information that pertains to us as sugar artists.

They recommend we make 7 minute or royal icing as follows. In a heavy sauce pan or a double boiler stir together the egg whites and sugar from your recipe. Using a minimum of 2 t. Granulated sugar per egg white and 1 t. Water and 1/8 t. Cream of tarter per 2 egg whites. Cook over low heat beating with a portable mixer at low speed - do not let the mixture foam but just keep the mixture moving. Cook until the eggs each 160 degrees. (if using an unlined aluminum saucepan, do not add cream of tartar. It will react with the aluminum to produce an unattractive gray product. ) pour into a large bowl and beat at high speed until the egg whites reach high peak for 7 minute icing.

(my input for royal)after heating by their recommendations beat at low speed adding powdered sugar until you have reached the desired consistency. I don't know how this will work because I haven't tried it yet. Seems reasonable - at least it may be an answer. If one of you has the time to try this let me know.

When I am making lace points or something small I only use one egg white and this seemed to be more trouble that it was worth. We discussed that and she gave me another solution. After the lace points, royal flowers, flow in pieces and etc. Have been made and dried - then we can put them into the oven until that total piece has had the time to reach 160 degrees. How long we leave the sugar pieces in the oven would be determined by how large the items would be. Lace points - shorter time roses - longer time. We will have to determine this ourselves with the help of an oven thermometer. She said wet or dry they just need to reach 160 degrees to be totally safe. This seems to be a good solution for those of us who prefer the strength of the egg white royal icing.

Now some background on the degree of danger we are working with using fresh egg whites. From the egg board information. Although egg white does not readily support bacterial growth, it is possible for salmonella to be in either the white or yolk of the egg. Acid ingredients the acidity of a product is expressed as ph. Salmonella will not grow in an acid medium with a ph below 4. The lower the ph, he more acidic the product. When prepared with a sufficient quantity of lemon juice, vinegar or other acid ingredients, recipes for mayonnaise, hollandaise, Caesar dressing and some other egg dressings and sauces will have quite a low ph. These might be considered relatively low risk for healthy people. Unfortunately, there is no practical and simple way for the home cook or the food service operator to determine the ph of the finished product. Since the recipes used and the acidity of the ingredients vary a great deal, it is better to prepare these items by cooking the eggs or to use a pasteurized liquid egg product to assure safety.

From me - the lemon juice added to the egg white reduces our risk of bacteria contamination in royal icing. But unless we are chemist there is no way we can guarantee the safety. Therefore if you have a concern follow one of the procedures mentioned above. I had understood that sugar is a preservative and therefore this also reduces our risk. Nicholas lodge and I had a discussion recently about this. He said - they are taught in their college courses in England that sugar in massive quantities deters the growth of Bacteria in our sugar mediums. Such as the buttercream, royal, gum paste, pastillage and mint sugar icings that we all use. This plus the lemon juice acidity which also reduces the breeding ground for bacteria gives us a margin for safety. Total safety will be to bring all fresh egg white sugar work (wet or dry ) to the temperature of 160 degrees. Salmonella organisms will not survive if held at a temperature of 140 degrees f for 3 minutes or if they reach an end-point temperature of 160 degrees f.

Now some information about salmonella and eggs from the egg boards information the egg is one of nature's most nutritious economical and versatile foods. With proper care and handling, it poses no greater risk than any other perishable food. The inside of the egg had once been considered almost sterile, but recently a bacterial organism, salmonella enteritidis, has been found inside some eggs. How the contamination occurs is still unclear, but scientists are working to find a solution to the problem. Only a very small number of eggs might contain salmonella enteriditis. Even in areas where outbreaks of salmonellosis have occurred, tested flocks show an average of only about 2 to 3 infected eggs out of each 10,000 produced. Conservative scientists liberally estimate that across the country, only 1 out of every 20,000 eggs produced might contain the bacteria. The likelihood of your finding an infected egg is about o.005% (five one-thousandths of a percent). If an egg does contain the organism, the numbers in a freshly laid egg probably will be small and, if the eggs are promptly refrigerated, will not multiply enough to cause illness in a healthy person.

All animal protein foods -- dairy products, eggs, meat, poultry and fish -- provide a ready supply of both food and moisture for bacterial growth. The fda considers these foods potentially hazardous. The designation is not cause for alarm. It simply means that these foods are perishable and should receive refrigeration, sanitary handling and adequate cooking. Lack of attention to these details can make any food a 'hazardous' food. Condensed from several paragraphs - people who get sick with the salmonellosis bacteria can then pass on the organisms for several weeks after an attack. Fron the intestinal tract to the hands and on to food. Washing of our hands is extremely important. Remember if you want to read all of their info go to http://www.aeb.org/safety/index.html Thyis following is condensed information from their information some of the top ten egg safety tips

• 1. Buy refrigerated grade a or aa eggs with clean, un-cracked shells. Discard any that crack on the way home.
• 2. Keep eggs refrigerated at 40 degrees or below in their cartons on a middle shelf in the refrigerator, not on the door.
• 3. Use a clean utensil to remove any shell pieces which fall into the eggs when cracking them open.
• 4. Cook basic egg dishes until the whites are set and the yolks begin to thicken: they don't have to be hard.
• 5. Cook scrambled eggs, omelets and frittatas until there is no visible liquid egg remaining.
• 6. Cook other dishes like French toast and Monte Cristo sandwiches, crab cakes, pasta dishes, quiches and casseroles until they're done at the enter (160 degrees f).
• 7. Cook the eggs or use a pasteurized egg product when making eggnog, ice cream, hollandaise sauce and other recipes calling for raw eggs.
• 8 & 9 - skipping 10. Wash hands, utensils, equipment and work surfaces with hot, soapy water before and after preparing eggs and all other foods.

• Eggs should not be re-washed before use. Salmonella organisms will not survive if held at a temperature of 140 degrees f for 3 minutes or if they reach an end-point temperature of 160 degrees f.
• The internal temperatures of fully baked goods and hard-cooked eggs will easily reach more than 160 degrees f by the time they are done.
• Raw egg yolk is a fine growth medium for bacteria.
• It is best to cook egg yolks even when used in such dishes as cold souffles, chiffons and mousses, or salad dressings and sauces.
• To cook egg yolks, the recipe must contain at least two tablespoons of liquid per yolk.
• Less liquid will produce scrambled eggs. Simply combine the yolks with the liquid in the recipe.
• Cook in a heavy saucepan over very low heat, stirring constantly, until the mixture coats a metal spoon, bubbles at the edges or reaches 160 degrees f. Cool quickly and proceed with the recipe.

The page includes a white cake, chocolate angel cake, Estee's fudgy fructose frosting and the following two recipes

Pineapple chiffon cake

• combine
• 2 1/4 c. Sifted cake flour
• 1 t. Baking powder
• 1/2 t. Salt.
• Add
• 3/4 c. Sorbitol.
• Mix. Make a well in the center of the flour mixture
• add
• 1/2 c. Liquid vegetable oil
• 5 egg yolks
• 3/4 c. Unsweetened pineapple juice.

1 c. Fructose and 1/4 c. Water in saucepan and cook over medium heat until fructose is completely dissolved. Continue cooking and stirring until fructose is completely dissolved. Continue cooking and stirring until syrup comes to a boil. Remove from heat. Now beat 2 egg whites and 1/2 t. Cream of tarter together with electric mixer until soft peaks form. Gradually add fructose syrup in a thin stream while beating (this should take about 5 minutes). Add 1 1/2 t. Lemon flavoring and 2 drops yellow food coloring. Beat for about 2 minutes or until stiff and glossy. Spread over cake. Yield: 20 servings. Exchange 1 serving: 1 fruit, calories, 1 serving: 40, carbohydrates, 1 serving: 10. 

• JNMmccann: Pwd: where do you buy Sorbitol?
• MaraTLee: Tried to get Sorbitol from my distributor, they don't carry it any more---
• Bakerbear1: supermarkets sometimes carry Sorbitol... Lee Keke: what is Sorbitol
• Cake Wmn: Try health food stores for Sorbitol
• MaraTLee: Lee, sugar substitute
• Faline165: sorry to ask this is a kitchen.. but doesn't Sorbitol often have a "laxative" effect?
• MaraTLee: faline--yes
• Bakerbear1: in some people, depending on the amount yes faline
• MaraTLee: I use 1/2 of what the recipe calls for---

• SWTDEL: I heat in a double boiler. I have a recipe like that except I don't beat while heating the whites & sugar to 160. Then beat in a bowl after it reaches 160.
• Bakerbear1: <make sure you line your oven w/foil first....messy mistakes ahead.
• Pwd Sugar: If the flowers and lace points are dry - it shouldn't make a mess
• MaraTLee: Ps, do you ever add a spoonful of gum Arabic to your royal for strength?
• Pwd Sugar: Yes - Gum Arabic is great for extra strength
• Anushisk: when I made a decoration w/color flow it was opaque and not shiny like in the books, why?
• Pwd Sugar: Dry under a heat lamp for more shine
• MaraTLee: PS, if you don't have heat lamp, you can add the Wilton color flow mix--it has something in
• MaraTLee: it to make it dry shinny. Salmonella likes to hang out in the yolk---LOL
• Cakestmper: Check your sugar, to make sure its cane sugar, and not beet sugar, for non shine problem
• Bakerbear1: meringue powder & color flow, etc....and powdered egg whites
• Tfkwe: meringue powder
• Pwd Sugar: Baker bear I had a person tell me the pwds are not entirely safe either. No facts to back that up - just another of those rumors
• Bakerbear1: supermarkets now carried powdered egg whites
• Pwd Sugar: that when moisture is added back to the dry egg white bacteria can grow again
• Tfkwe: are the meringue powders safe??
• Bakerbear1: Some are treated to be salmonella free, like the egg whites..
• Gigimama: Salmonella is not very hardy; the drying process should destroy it (former microbiologist)
• Bakerbear1: well, bacteria can form in any condition...you let water stand on icing w/no eggs in the sun
• Cake Wmn: PS, did you ask the egg board lady about that
• Bakerbear1: or in a damp closet...bateria city...
• CHaney8796: I thought that powder egg whites are pasteurized and therefore safe???
• MaraTLee: When the health insp. comes to my shop the first thing he checked was that I stored eggs in bottom row of fridge
• Mamoollb: Even eating batter with eggs is not good
• Cakestmper: Wilton color flo and meringue powders indicate to refrigerate after opening.
• Mamoollb: What do you do if you're diabetic and have high cholesterol and test your eggs for freshness. If they float in water, they're not fresh Bakerbear1: you be very careful mam...
• Cakestmper: Tis better to err on the side of over cautious than run risk of making someone very ill.
• MaraTLee: Yes, in case there is a contaminated egg and it breaks it doesn't contaminate the rest of
• MaraTLee: the food--just makes a mess---LOL
• Pwd Sugar: Gigimama - do you have anymore you can help us with in this topic
• Gigimama: Not much to add, it is true that raw eggs can contain Salmonella
• Pwd Sugar: Right - I have used fresh egg whites for royal for over 35 years and figure common sense and being careful is a reasonable thing to do.
• Gigimama: also true that high sugar content inhibits microbial growth, the same as high salt does
• Mamoollb: What about fresh eggs in mousse. It's also full of cholesterol
• MaraTLee: I just tell them not to eat the royal decorations--to keep as momentous of occasion. Egg shell porous material that organisims can penetrate---<--old bio major-- salmonella is an organic organism---
• Cakestmper: Oh yes, Anushisk, we sure did!
• Mike4cook: Make sure the eggs you use are fresh and purchased from a reliable supplier
• Mamoollb: Pwd, I think there is a lot of hysteria in this country and eggs are one of them
• Pwd Sugar: That percent makes me feel better about the fresh egg white royal
• Mamoollb: How many people do you know who have come down with salmonella
• Cakestmper: 2, and both are dead
• Pwd Sugar: Oh the joys of ignorance
• SpecBySue: often when we think we have 24 hr virus it is food poisoning. From deli, eggs, cross contamination
• Mike4cook: almost everyone as salmonella every day but don't no it
• Cakestmper: Common sense in regard to eggs, store cold enough, do not handle with bare hands, and cook them thoroughly. Don't eat it if it stinks
• MaraTLee: PS, remember when we were able to keep our eggs out on the counter---????
• Bakerbear1: a recipe i have says to leave the eggs, chocolate & butter in the oven w/pilot light on
• JNMmccann: right Cakest & don't buy eggs in your store if they not refrigerated
• Bakerbear1: overnight to melt/bring to room temperature the ingredients...is that then unsafe
• MaryZ13: my mother put raw eggs in our bottles when we were babies and i gave it to my kids
• Mamoollb: Couldn't agree more about washing hands
• Gigimama: Bakerbear-VERY unsafe!
• Cakestmper: You never know if store refrigerates properly, some leave pallets full of eggs on loading dock, in full sunlight, until someone puts them away.
• MaraTLee: YES<WASH<WASH<WASH
• Tfkwe: Why raw eggs in your bottles?
• Bakerbear1: she's a phd (the author)...wouldn;t have thought she would lead astray...
• Mamoollb: My mother used to make me fresh egg nog all the time
• JNMmccann: Dog, i don't drink eggnogs anymore
• MaraTLee: raw eggs with grape juice---for extra nutrition
• MaryZ13: it was supposed to be good for you
• Bakerbear1: although having done the recipe that way and no one got sick from my party...
• Terrier193: A dumb statement? I have used raw eggs my whole life and never a problem..
• Dogwagon: ...or will all the liquor make it safe?
• CAKESUP: Chicken were raised differently in the old days. Mass production mean weaker chickens and poor quality of the eggs they produce.
• Mamoollb: Try to use egg beaters for a really good recipe with a lot of eggs - ugh
• Pwd Sugar: Check out the first of the chat info - there is a way to heat the eggs without setting them to use in egg nogs and ice cream and etc
• SpecBySue: remeber in the old days food was different. More acidic protection and not the contaminates
• MaraTLee: Also, the shell were not as brittle---- there are too many contaminates and they affect the shell on all eggs----reptiles also
• Mamoollb: My father would get eggs straight from the farmer
• Dogwagon: Mara: you're right, I cooked a couple of eggs tonight from a local poultry farm, and the... ...shells were like wood!
• LK1241: my Mom used to give my sister and i egg nog made from eggs, orange juice, vanilla can still taste them.
• Terrier193: I drink em, put em in Caesar dressing, nog, milk shakes - what a shame
• Pwd Sugar: I wonder why the refrigerator manufactures make the containers to store them in the door
• MaraTLee: Dog--too hard or did they splinter????
• Pwd Sugar: Don't dip back with an egg shell to get the broken piece
• Dogwagon: Mara: the shells were just much tougher, and not as brittle, as regular store-bought eggs.
• CHaney8796: The chickens of today only eat grain. The chickens of today are kept in a pen in large chicken houses and never see the light of day Dogwagon: Mara: the yolks also seemed much denser and of a darker yellow color.
• CHaney8796: In the old days when we lived on the farm the chickens ate bugs and every thing
• EleCre: How do you feel about leaving eggs out to come to room temperature?
• EleCre: How do you feel about leaving eggs out to come to room temperature?
• Mamoollb: Used to do that. Whites whip better
• Gigimama: EleCre-ok as long as you use them right away, not set around for very long
• EleCre: Is that not safe?
• FITZBARB: Ele - just put them in warm water for about 5 minutes to bring to room temp
• EleCre: I always make my royal icing with egg white at room temp. Very Strong.
• Pwd Sugar: I condensed this material tonight from about 8 pages of info so
• Pwd Sugar: MWend my kind of eggs too - especially country eggs - not the plastic eggs out of the store
• Pwd Sugar: I did this tonight because I get really criticized for using the fresh egg whites to make royal

• Swet2b: I am making my first wedding cake for a friend and I would like
• Swet2b: some suggestion on type of cake to use.
• MaraTLee: Swet---have you asked her what she likes--?
• Bakerbear1: use a mix without pudding added, etc...you want it to be a bit sturdy
• Swet2b: Basically i get the what ever I think best idea.
• Swet2b: She wants Carrot cake for the grooms cake.
• Cakestmper: i tried Pillsbury white mix the other day, it was very moist and tasty.
• MaraTLee: Swet, carrot cake is a hard cake to cut----very crumbly
• Swet2b: Someone told me that pound cake is best. Does it really matter.
• Mamoollb: The low-fat lemon mix isn't bad
• Photogra4: Swet. use a white cake mix and do a nice low sugar raspberry or strawberry filling.
• Swet2b: Photo thanks for that suggestion I will keep that in my note book to mention to her.
• Cake Wmn: Swet, I just had problems with Duncan Hines white cake - so have several friends
• Dogwagon: Swet: I once made a four-tier Gingerbread wedding cake, filled with a crystallized ginger... ...compote, and frosted with a butter cream. It was well received.
• Anushisk: the new Duncan Hines white has less crumbs the box reed new and improve
• Cakestmper: Duncan Hines has new formula white mix, you might try again, see how you like it
• Swet2b: Cake I don't really like that brand for much of anything but do like Pillsbury.
• Cake Wmn: It was the new one - about 1/2 inch peeled off clear around three of the layers!
• Bakerbear1: i use Pillsbury a lot, usually comes out perfect
• Gigimama: The Pillsbury white is very good, moist, and few crumbs. Add 1 tsp almond extract/mix-heaven
• Cakestmper: Swet, it will work, you can modify in by adding 1/4 cup flour, or cut back on oil.
• *** Pwd Sugar: If any of you have my Kaluaha Fudge cake - increase the cake mix to 2 1/2 mixes. Since they have changed the cake mix formula DH - I had to figure out how to fix that
• Tfkwe: How many cups of batter to a box mix?
• Cakestmper: Box mixes can vary from 4 cups to 6 cups.

• CAKESUP: Pwd. How are you doing with your new Deluxe Oven?
• Pwd Sugar: The new oven is in my floor and waiting to be hooked up - it looks great LOL
• CAKESUP: It may take a run or two but you will love it when you get use to using it. I Love mine. I use it every day and I have had it for 4 years.

• CHaney8796: Day of Sharing Ohio September 28, Columbus, Ohio. We are having a demonstration by Dolores (pattern transfer to cakes), Sue Phillips (Dolores' daughter) on making cake stencils, Joyce Heckel) on airbrushing techniques of all kinds...sharing all her tricks. Pulled sugar Sue Larson, Columbus, Ohio.
• SGSchenk: what's a Day of Sharing?
• CHaney8796: Its where we share as much as possible about cake decorating with each other
• Pwd Sugar: A day of sharing is where we cake decorators get together for a whole day or a weekend and have several demos and share share share share and share
• SWTDEL: Does anyone have info on MI dos
• Cakestmper: We get together to share ideas, recipes, do demos, yak, kind of mini convention in one day
• Pwd Sugar: Everybody learns - The new decorators and us oldies even learn things LOL
• Cakestmper: Tallahassee Floirda is OCtobe 26, Newsletter going inmail Friday
• CHaney8796: SGSchenk What state are you from???
• SGSchenk: Virginia
• Pwd Sugar: Virginia has a real active state SGS. Are you an ICES member
• CHaney8796: Ohio gets between 100-150 members at a Day of Sharing
• Faline165: Can't wait...I'm still on high from convention...already got hotel reservations for next year
• Pwd Sugar: You need to join so you can find out about all of the activities in the state
• SGSchenk: OK, so what is it? I'm not a professional cook
• Tfkwe: CHaney8796- I would like to join ICES
• Pwd Sugar: Dolores did a super job fixing me a web page Check it out. http://members.aol.com/pwdsugar/private/index.html
• CHaney8796: Yes!!I'm the Rep for Ohio I.C.E.S.
• Pwd Sugar: There is a link from there to the ICES web site - You will find >lots of good info

• 1/3 c soft butter or margarine
• 1/3 c light corn syrup
• 1/2 tsp salt
• 1 lb. sifted confectioners sugar - about 4 cups
• 1 tsp. flavoring
• Blend butter, corn syrup, salt and flavoring in a large bowl. Add sifted sugar all at once. Mix first with a spoon and then with hands. Blend until smooth. Store molded fruit at room temperature in covered container until needed.

COATED FRUIT BARS: (From aol cook book) Use 2 different flavors of fruit bars. Cut one of the flavors into rectangles. Cut the other fruit flavor into squares. Put pieces into a ziplock baggie that has confectioners sugar in it. Shake. Remove and serve. Elegant and easy to do!

MAPLE WALNUT FUDGE & CANDY FILLING: 1 pound white chocolate compound wafers 1 can sweetened condensed milk chopped walnuts maple walnut flavoring

Melt white chocolate compound wafers in a double boiler. Remove from heat and stir in condensed milk (warm and make it same temperature as melted coating). Quickly, add the flavoring and walnuts. Stir. Pour into a buttered 8" x 8" pan.