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FROM EARLENE (DOLORES IS AWAY)

WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED WHEN PRICING YOUR CAKES.

Pwd Sugar: Did you all bring your yearbooks to the chat tonight?
SWTDEL: Got to run and get mine!!
Gigimama: Got mine right here!
PieBkr: I only own one but I brought it!!
LauraJMD: back.. with yearbooks!!
MaraTLee: Good, we should also calculate the value of a customer
CarolA5238: Oh good I have a specialty cake to do (Italian cream) for 200?
MaraTLee: Carol, when you say Italian cream , what exactly do you mean? There are several different versions
Pwd Sugar: Mara do you mean the Italian Cream Cake

MaraTLee: Is she talking about an Italian cake with whipped cream icing, custard filling and almond and some rum flavoring? Cannoli filling?--all these things would influence the price
CarolA5238: Don't have the dog-gonest idea how much to charged?
Pwd Sugar: All of those little extras affect your price unless you charge enough to cover those incidentals.    I use extra ingredients in everything so I figure my base price covers it unless they really want something like German chocolate icing or Guenache icing
CarolA5238: the filling is butter and cream cheese and has a homemade custard icing.
Pwd Sugar: I do the Italian cream cake and just use the cream cheese buttercream icing with it. I price it the same as others.  Be realllly careful doing custard fillings. Those eggs in the custard left out at room temperature could get you in trouble
CarolA5238: the eggs are in the cake batter.
Pwd Sugar: Does the custard filling have eggs in it?
CarolA5238: the filling is the frosting and layers of nuts.
Carolelieb: Are you talking about a custard filling tha't
CarolA5238: there is no eggs in the filling, the cream cheese is another type of icing,
Pwd Sugar: Ok - I misunderstood the custard filling

MaraTLee: Pwd, I knew a lady who would charge by the pound, she took pictures of all her cakes and wrote all the details pertaining that cake and charged $5.00 a pound!
Pwd Sugar: $5.00 a pound -  that sound like a really intresting way to charge.
CarolA5238: there's buttermilk, chopped pecans coconut and 6eggs.
Pwd Sugar: Did she only do pound cakes.   LOL
Gigimama: A bakery here charges by the pound, thought that was strange
Simdelish: my local bakery also charges "by the pound"

Chefdujour: Pwd,my daughter's was 600, is that normal?
Pwd Sugar: For how many servings Chef
Pwd Sugar: Depends on what you asked the cake decorator to do.
Pwd Sugar: I have cakes that run from $200 to over $4,000.
Gigimama: Mine was only $100 for 100 servings
Chefdujour: Had a fondant overlay,and lilies of the valley
Gigimama: Of course it was a simple design, and 10 years ago

1. YOUR LOCATION - THE TOWN YOU LIVE IN AND THE ECONOMY IN THAT AREA.
 
2.  YOUR SKILL LEVEL -  If you are a beginner decorator and building your skills as well as your reputation then you might need to keep your prices competitive with the bakeries in your area.    If you have been doing cakes for customers for a while and have a thriving business in your community you should be able to charge a price that will compensate you for your time as well as your materials.   If  I really get tired of doing one cake design i up the price.   The only problem is that it so far hasn't seemed to slow those orders down.   I guess if you have to have a problem that is a nice one to have.

3.  YOUR COMPETITORS PRICES - This is one thing i don't even worry about.  I try to give my customers a better tasting cake, a moister cake,  a design of their choice and hopefully all of this is tied together to make my product worth paying more money for.   If you are just starting to do cakes for friends and customers you will probably need to be aware of the bakery and supermarket prices.  As your skills and reputation increase then you can begin to up those prices little by little.

4.  HOW MUCH TIME DOES THE DESIGN THAT THEY WANT REQUIRE -  a basic cake with fast side designs and borders should be an economical cake.  Those designs that take you all day to execute should be priced higher.  Such as a plain iced cake with a triple scalloped ruffle on the sides and a shell border on the base with a reverse shell on the top border is very fast for me.  $2.00 per serving is my starting price.   So a cake for 95 (14 - 10 -6) would be $200.00.   I could ice that cake and decorate it in a couple of hours.  The baking, making the icing and icing the cake and decorating it can be done in one day.   $200.00 is not to bad for one days work.   How many of your friends who go to jobs as secretaries,  hair dressers and ect.  Take  home $200 for a days work.
    I had a brides father come to the house today to pay for his daughters cake.  He said he was floored when his daughter told him how much the cake was going to cost.  After he spent a little time with me and we discussed the time that it takes to construct the cakes and to do the side designs he thought he was getting a bargain.
   Our customers just have no idea the time it takes for us to construct what they want besides the baking and planning time.   If we charge bargain prices - we are our own worst public relations.   If we don't think enough of our talents and what our time is worth why should they.    Don't sell yourself short.  You have a skill and talent that is a marketable commodity.  The bakeries only do what is fast and easy.  They come to us for the designs that are more intricate and time consuming.

5.  THE ACTUAL CAKE INGREDIENTS -  this is probably the least expense in your pricing.  Most birthday cakes  that use one cake mix will probably cost you less than $5.00 in ingredients.   That is cake and icing.   Now if you start adding extra expensive ingredients, fillings and etc your cost is going to go up.   Guenache icing is expensive.  German chocolate filling is expensive.  You must cover those costs plus be paid something for your time.   You are in this to make a profit - not to just fill up free time.

NOW FOR SOME SPECIFIC CAKES IN THE 1998 WILTON YEARBOOK.
Remember I am giving you prices that i might charge in my area for my customers.  You will have to adjust those prices accordingly for where you live.   Some may go higher and others will know their customers will never pay that much for a cake.  You will have to adjust down as necessary.

Also you will notice that Wilton's is using lots of rolled fondant in their cake suggestions this year.  Many of these cakes could just as easily be done in smooth buttercream.  If you use the buttercream instead of the rolled fondant the price can come down.

PAGE 2 HAS A REAL CUTE IDEA FOR A BABY SHOWER OR A 1ST BIRTHDAY FOR A BOY OR GIRL.
The four eight inch layers are covered with pastel covered rolled fondant.    They have used the letter imprints to lay our the message and the little bear embosser to imprint the little bears on the sides of the fondant cakes.    Simple right.  But just think a minute.  You are going to have to color  the fondant for each of those cakes.  They will need to be on individual boards to ice and border.  You must then also construct a board that those individual cakes will sit on with the tuck and ruffle already in place.  The bear will need another board cut to the shape and exact size of the bear cake.  You will need several tips of colored icing to do the fur with the #233 tip to form that furry look.   The #233 tip is one i always use a coupler with.  This tip tends to stop up on you and if you use a coupler you can remove it easily clean it out and put it right back on and continue working.   Now how much do we charge for this very simple looking cake?   It serves 36 the book says.  You can't do this cake in just a hour.  With covering the boards, making and coloring the icing , baking the cakes you will be involved with this cake probably all day long.  I would say $2.00 a serving would be reasonable.  That would make it cost $72.00 to your customer.  I don't like doing rolled fondant for less than $2.50 per serving.  It is more expensive than buttercream besides the extra time it takes.   I would prefer the $2.50 per serving for this cake.   That hair tip takes a lot of time also.  That would make the cake cost  $90.00 to your customers.  Some of my customers would find that reasonable and others would say they would call me back and just never call back.   I would rather not do a cake than give it away because someone thinks I am charging to much.

What would you charge for this cake - and where is your location ?     Example  -  $50 -pa

PAGE 13 BOTTOM CENTER - LUCK LEAP FROG
A really cute idea using the bear 3D pan.  What little boy would not love this cake for his birthday.   The tongue, drop flowers, flies and Lilly pad all need to be made ahead of time and let them dry.  This cake serves 50 people. I  would not do this cake for less than $100.00.    This is another of those labor intensive cakes.   All of those little tiny stars look easy but they really get tedious going on that cake.

PAGE 15 THE START YOUR ENGINES! CAKE
Another really cute cake for boys.  This one is sure a lot less labor.  It serves 12 so with the race car candles, lollipop flags your customers should be willing to pay $20 to $25 for this cake

PAGE 16 PRETTY PIROUETTE - CUTE CAKE FOR THOSE LITTLE DARLING BALLERINAS
Have you noticed how Wilton's is marketing subtly lots of extras for you to be able to duplicate these cakes.  Such as the ballerina - $1.99,  heart base - $2.99,  fresh flower holder -$15.00,  glitter candles - 10 for 99¢.   You will still need to purchase some tulle  also.   So if you have a customer who wants this cake you will have to spend at least $21 for this stuff before you even begin baking the cake.
    I thought just looking at this cake that the bows and x ribbons were fondant.  They are very cleverly made with buttercream or royal icing and the instructions are on page 102.
This cake serves 30 people  and once your roses and bows are made should not take a lot of time to complete.   Remember you have $21 dollars of stuff besides the cake so i would think that $80.00 would be reasonable for this cake in my area.

PAGE 17 BOTTOM IS HER DAY TO SHINE.  ANOTHER NICELY DONE FONDANT CAKE.   IT SERVES 12 AND $25 WITH THE PLASTIC FIGURE AND COINS IS REASONABLE.
I won't do a cake for less than $25.00.  Any cake will take you at least a half a day to bake, make your icing, color it, cover your board and decorate your cake.  I think my time is worth at least that.
   remember that the cakes such as the Winnie the pooh helps you turn two  on page 19 cannot be duplicated for sales.   If the figures are purchased such as the pooh candle on the top,  the customer can purchase that and you can place it on her cake.   You cannot legally do those pooh characters on the sides of that cake to sell to your customers.  You can do them for your family and close friends who you are not charging for your cakes but that is all.
 
PAGE 30 TOP RIGHT - SWEET SYMBOLS OF LOVE IS A REALLY STUNNING CHOCOLATE CAKE.
Once covered with the chocolate rolled fondant it is decorated with four designs from the fondant molds on page 111.   I could not really tell if they used molds from just one of the sets or from both.   This cake serves 18 and is so elegant that it should easily sell for at least $35 to $40 dollars.

Gigimama: I really like this one, simple yet elegant!
Pwd Sugar: I think this is one of my favorite cakes in this yearbook
Gigimama: I would say $30-35
Lehtola: what if you charge for the cake material?
Pwd Sugar: Cake Material?
Gigimama: What about the lattice cake on that page?  With icing flowers
Pwd Sugar: I have that next Gigi
Gigimama: The lattice work was quick, but that's alot of drop flowers on the sides
Simdelish: sold 3 of those monster cakes--@$40

Gigimama: IS the molded sugar easy to do?
Pwd Sugar: Sugar molding is easy - it just takes time
Gigimama: How strong is it after it dries?

PAGE 33 TOUCHING TRIBUTE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE IS AGAIN THE ROLLED FONDANT.  Royal iced scroll work made ahead and dried.  A few gum paste flowers  made ahead.  Serves 44 people and without the flowers $75 to $80 and with the flowers $90 to $100 dollars.
   At the top of the page is a real basic design.  Notice the under color of moss green on the sides of the cake.  The flowers are actually candles and those run $2.99 per pack and two packs are used on this cake.  This cake serves 18.  With $6 for the candles you should be able to charge $25 to $30 for this cake.

PAGE 59 IS A REALLY CLEVER USE OF THE SUGAR EGG.   The kids should love this monster on the top with a mouth full of candy.   A really easy to decorate cake with ready made candies.   With the construction of the monster on top and purchasing the candy on the cake you will probably need to charge at least $25 to $30 for this cake .

IT IS OPEN MIKE TIME  AND WITH DOLORES GONE I WILL TRY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS OR GO TO OTHER CAKES IN THE YEARBOOK THAT YOU WOULD LIKE  FOR US TO DISCUSS  THE PRICING.

Chefdujour: I think the fondant thing is very English, right?
Pies4me: Is rolled fondant better to use?
Pwd Sugar: English, Australian, or S. African
Pwd Sugar: Not better - just different.
Chefdujour: Pie, I don't know if it is better, but it is beautiful.
BakersTch: What does rolled fondant taste like?
Chefdujour: candy
PieBkr: I like to use it but I don't like the taste or texture
PieBkr: I heard that it is supposed to taste like the inside of an Oreo
Pwd Sugar: Rolled fondant is a compressed icing  and a different feel to the mouth
Gigimama: Fondant looks nice, but tastes yucky!
Chefdujour: I like fondant
PieBkr: How is the Chocolate fondant...any better?
Pwd Sugar: It really tastes pretty good if you put some lemon or orange oil flavoring in it
LeighDigg: hadn't thought of orange... I use orange in buttercream
Bridal1: I'd rather do buttercream to look like fondant
Bridal1: Let the icing set some and then use smooth paper towel and smooth like the fondant.
Pwd Sugar: The chocolate fondant tastes like chocolate    LOL
AShyGal27: chocolate tastes like tootsie rolls
Chefdujour: Bridal, I have never seen a butter cream that looked like fondant
Cake Wmn: Some people use marshmallow flavoring, that helps
Bridal1: Won't pay for rolled fondant in my country area.
Pwd Sugar: I have several cakes in my books that have very smooth buttercream and some brides think they are the rolled fondant
PieBkr: The ready to use fondant around here is 7 bucks a pack
Bridal1: Yes, Chef, you can get the same look
LeighDigg: when you smooth buttercream that way do you have to use more icing? And edges of cake don't show through when pressed with paper towel?
SStella746: how is the fondant to cut
Bridal1: Leigh, no, I don't
Bridal1: To round the top edge, Leigh, barely cut top with serrated knife and get a smoother rounded
Gigimama: The fondant, four colors no less, really ups the price, $60 maybe?

Mr Kittle: thank you.  anyone heard of baking cake mix leaving out ingredients and baking low temp
Mr Kittle: overnight to dry out to make a dummy?
Mr Kittle: I saw it somewhere, but can't find it now!
Pwd Sugar: Mr Kittle you can also mix rice krispies with royal icing.  Grease your pans really good
pack with the rice krispie mixture and let it set up.
PieBkr: i was thinking 50
Pwd Sugar: CHeap dummies but you cant's stick things into that dummy
Mr Kittle: Really? so krispies just dry out?
Bridal1: Mr. K are you an ICES member?  There are company's in there that advertise dummies.
Mr Kittle: yes I am an ices member
Bridal1: Mr. K. check out some of the co's. in the ICES newsletter and call for dummies.

BakersTch: How do you price a cake? I'm still new to this.
PieBkr: that is what this Whole chat is about Baker

PieBkr: If I can cut in with a question..how do you cut the frog cake?
Gigimama: very carefully!
Pwd Sugar: From the top Pie
CarolA5238: Alady wants a 3-d fire engine cake to feed 100, all chocolate for a grooms cake!
CarolA5238: these 3-d cakes are all sorts new to me and I heard she'll pay well.

Gigimama: Are 3-D cakes much harder to do?
PieBkr: I would never have thought to price it so much..boy have I been jipping myself
Gigimama: Star fill-in is very tedious, so boring!
Chefdujour: Why can you get more for a cake than a bakery?
Pwd Sugar: 3D cakes are not necessarily harder - you just have to decorate all sides of them
Chefdujour: Doesnt it just take us longer?
Gigimama: The flies could be made right on the cake, and the lily pad could just be drawn on to simpli
Pwd Sugar: A bakery won't spend the time to do most of these designs and many will not do the different
kinds of cake we get requests for
Gigimama: You could never get a cake like this from a bakery
Bridal1: My customers would not look at it that way. Cute, pretty simple, little decorating, charge extra for the novelties
Pwd Sugar: How do your customers look at it Bridal
Gigimama: I would charge $25
Bridal1: Cheap!!
Bridal1: I've spoiled them too long
Pwd Sugar: They expect you to price them cheap?
RachDminor: Your time alone is worth that.
Bridal1: Yes, most of them would as there is bakery in town.
Pwd Sugar: Your customers will only pay what you have guts enough to charge them. If you charge cheap - why should they pay more. I have a friend in  an area town that works her tail off.  Doesn't sleep on Friday nights because she has so many cakes to do.  Yet she won't go up on h er prices because she is afraid she won't have orders.  She is killing herself
Chefdujour: We don't have a good Wilton store. Just bits and pieces
RachDminor: Christmas ones are on sale for 70% off at Michael's now ;)
RachDminor: Wonder what her profit works out to per hour ....
Pwd Sugar: If you do good work, give them a good tasting product they will pay the price you ask
Gigimama: She could up gradually, a dollar at a time, if she's concerned
Simdelish: I have a minimum- $30 for just about any cake,and 35 for those character pans
Pwd Sugar: Right - but she doesn't see it that way.
Gigimama: She needs to take a couple of business classes!
Pwd Sugar: I upped my prices about .50 cents per serving every 9 months until I got them where they are now.
Chefdujour: Business classes are good
RachDminor: there's some excellent business info on the Web .. trying to remember where
PieBkr: Leigh..are you in any religious organization?
LeighDigg: not particularly.. tried some churches  mostly freebies
PieBkr: I get lots of practice orders from my church
Pwd Sugar: I am the highest person in town and I am turning cakes away
CarolA5238: One of my students made a truck cake for 300 and charged 70 dollars, he nuts.
Gigimama: All my orders come from my Mom's club and playgroups
Pwd Sugar: Nuts is right
Simdelish: PWD-what do you or Dee charge for doll cake?

Chefdujour: How would I get a Wilton catalog???
Pwd Sugar: You can order the Wilton catalog from Dolores Chef or directly from Wilton's
RachDminor: Do they have a catalog .. or just the yearbooks?
Gigimama: Yearbook is the catalog
Pwd Sugar: If you have a Michaels, Hobby Lobby and etc you can probably find one there

Lehtola: Question about doing a cake like a disney character? If you charge for it is there a copy right infringement?
Gigimama: Lehhtola-Don't do it!!
RachDminor: copyright infringement, just as you guessed :)
Lehtola: why?
Gigimama: It is copyright infringement, and very illegal.
Lehtola: can you modify it?
Gigimama: Nope.
Gigimama: If it is at all recognizable, you're in trouble
PieBkr: well, many of my cakes are unrecognizable since i am just starting out  :)
Lehtola: suppose you make a pooh and do it in black not yellow...it's not a pooh bear then.

Gigimama: What about the cornelli lace, do you charge more for that?
Pwd Sugar: I charge more if there is lots of it.  This is just a little bit on this cake
Gigimama: I do if it is a large area, not for smaller sections - P 17, rolled fondant, still only $25? I would charge $30
Pwd Sugar: $25 would be a starting price.  I like the $30 better to
Gigimama: If it were buttercream I'd charge $20-25
Grub246: how much cost is spent for ingredients and how much is for labor.

LeighDigg: what about the gingerbread on p. 65?
Pwd Sugar: Gingerbread on page 65 is really cute and has lots of time again
Pwd Sugar: I would say at least $75 for that one
RachDminor: is it a gingerbread house?

ILENE0617: I figure I need $50 per hour in decorating time make $$

Simdelish: pwd--what your price for doll cake--nice one?
Pwd Sugar: Page 17 has a doll cake
Pwd Sugar: That doll cake skirt is totally covered with roses.  I would not touch that cake for less than $25 with all of those
Simdelish: plus it's all royal--so very smooth looking

PieBkr: Does anyone notice that on page 71 the cross cake is very high?  mine never come out that high. Is that a two mix cake?
LeighDigg: yes.. did it this year
PieBkr: you used two mixes or i 1/2?
Pwd Sugar: One of the things they do in making these sample cakes is to decorate
the outsides of the pans turned upside down.  That may be why it looks higher

PieBkr: How about the mickey cake on page 77?
Gigimama: Mickey cake, wouldn't that be copyright infringement?
Gigimama: Arn't the "Mickey ears" a tradmark symbol?
Pwd Sugar: really delicate look.  I would probably price that at $2.50 to 3.00 per serving
Pwd Sugar: MIckey cake can only be done for family - not for paying customers
PieBkr: well, how much could i ask them to slip me under the table??  :)
Gigimama: $10,000 to cover the fine!  LOL

Gigimama: How about the diploma cake on p. 73? Jelly roll, rolled fondant
Pwd Sugar: Page 73 is a pretty simple cake but it does have a fondant ribbon and otherwise it is very basic.  I would probably only charge $25 for the jelly roll but the candy and figure would be extra
Gigimama: I did it last month and charge $20, but I should have charged $25, I think. I didn't do the candy or figure, just the cake

Simdelish: PWD--what're your thoughts on the wedding cakes on 85 and 89?
Pwd Sugar: Page 85 wedding cake is really prety - I haven't read to see how they have gotten that
Pwd Sugar: I start fondant prices at $2.50 per serving.
Simdelish: last ? pwd that pretty one on 85, but with gumpaste flowers
Pwd Sugar: Page 85   $2.50 to $3.00 per serving without the flowers
Pwd Sugar: They look like they are silks
BakersTch: wow!! how come so much on that one?
PieBkr: not 42.50

LeighDigg: my favorite is on p. 87
Pwd Sugar: I love that cake on page 87 also.  I would just want to overpipe it for more detail

Pwd Sugar: Page 89 wedding cake is all buttercream and I would say $2.00 to 2.50 per serving

BakersTch: Pwd what about the cake on 83? what would you charge?
Pwd Sugar: Pg 83.   Probably 42.50 per serving

LeighDigg: basically aren't any cakes made at home without health dept. approval a no no anyway?
Gigimama: When people persist in asking for copyrighted cakes, I tell them I'll do it for $10,000
Bridal1: depends on your county and state Leigh
Pwd Sugar: Leigh it depends on where you live.
LeighDigg: would like to know but afraid to ask that it might point me out.
Gigimama: Leigh, yes but they're too busy to bother.  Civil suits are another matter.  You can bet
lawyers have the time to bother!
Pwd Sugar: That is a tough place to be in Leigh
Pwd Sugar: I had a lawyer that told me not to worry about it that if they wanted to know
Pwd Sugar: if I did cakes in my house to tell them.  Yes I have a family and I bake cakes
Simdelish: my hubby's an attorney--you better believe he makes me abide by the law!!!
Pwd Sugar: If they want to come in and search for a cake - tell them to go get a search warrent
Bridal1: Are you in big city or country area Leigh
Pwd Sugar: I am a legal kitchen - but I had a couple of bakeries who thought they could shut me down
LeighDigg: just outskirts of Sarasota. Small area south. Health dept regs about selling homemade cakes
Pwd Sugar: They turned me in.   I already had everything in place to be legal. Just hadn't gone through the legal process.
Lizzzie P: Leigh, I lived there for 20 years, they are very strict.
LeighDigg: Liz where?
Lizzzie P: Manatee County, Leigh.
Bridal1: I'm in country area - small towns around and don't bother me
ILENE0617: Board of Health will shut you down if there are complaints and they investigate
Then if you continue, you are in contempt of court. They don't have time to look for you....usually only if there are complaints
LeighDigg: only if there are complaints?
Devonpeter: Tampa Florida Leigh
LeighDigg: South Sarasota county here
Pwd Sugar: They normally just give you a warning
LeighDigg: there is someone who was on here about 2 months ago that does have one though..
PieBkr: now can you do any of the cakes in this book for sale? If not..how much do you need to do to change the design?
PieBkr: Meant to press dollar sign
Pwd Sugar: Complaints usually come from the Bakeries in town who don't want your competition
Pwd Sugar: I think that PA has a home bakers regulation which is much more lenient that the legal
BakersTch: i read you can get bussiness info from chamber of commerce for small business

CarolA5238: Pwd,when you get a chance if you have the Magic for your table yearbook look on pg.100.
CarolA5238: that's going to be my wedding cake.