Back to our Chat list
Back to my Home page

HOW MUCH IS YOUR TIME WORTH? When you first start decorating, not much at all. It takes so long for a beginner to do a cake that you really would have a hard time counting 'time.' You must consider that you are 'learning by doing.' You SHOULD take your time. Or you may never be a good cake decorator. At first you need to become neat and precise, having all your decorations even and uniform. Then you should try out several techniques. Try doing some of the cakes from the Wilton Yearbooks. This ill teach you so much as far as techniques go. This way you will discover what decoration techniques you like to do most. Everyone doesn't do every technique. There are some I haven't even tried. THEN - you can start worrying about how much your time is worth.

CHARGING: You should always charge as much as the local bakery unless they specialize somehow. The bakeries in grocery stores are more interested in TIME than perfection or taste. If they weren't, there might not be so much business left for home decorators! LOL...this is why I started. The local bakery cakes weren't good. I didn't know anything about 'perfect' decorating. At that time I just cared about taste. Bakeries shouldn't hate home decorators the way they do. It is entirely their won fault in most cases, that they have this competition.

Pwd sugar won't be here again this week. Her day is gravely ill and she needs to be by his bedside as much as she possibly can. She had already prepared for this chat to be done while I was away. But she couldn't be there. And so, most of the information I am giving you comes from her. This is really interesting. She did an excellent job.

EARLENE'S PART:
The February 1998 ICES newsletter has a fantastic article on our subject tonight.  It really made me think about some things that I had not considered.

First for those of you who do not know about the ICES newsletters, let me tell you a little about them and our ICES organization.  ICES is an organization of over 4,000 people world wide who all love the world of sugar art.  We have beginner decorators, master decorators, bakery decorators, vendors who make or sell the equipment we need.  Chocolate vendors who make the chocolate or the equipment we use to do those wonderful eating  chocolate treats.

We all go to convention in August of each year and it is like a big family reunion.  You will have the privilege of meeting the book authors, the world traveling teachers, the best of the best all come together for this sugar art weekend.  Demonstrations, hundreds of cake and sugar art pieces are on display,  books to buy, equipment you can purchase. Start saving now for a wonderful weekend with people who love the same things you do.

If you would like to join ICES,  send $27.00 a year to Gail Mcmillan,  4883 Camellia Lane, Bossier City, LA 7111-5424     You will receive 11 newsletters a year and in that newsletter there are recipes,  technique  descriptions or how to's, 4 pages of color pictures of cakes from the last convention.  Information about the upcoming shows and vendor ads for specialty items. If you want to know more about ICES they do have a web page  http://www.ices.org where you can see a sampling from the newsletters and learn more about the organization.

NOW TO OUR SUBJECT TONIGHT.  "HOW MUCH IS YOUR TIME REALLY WORTH?  ARE YOU GIVING YOUR SUGAR ARTISTRY AWAY?"    The article in the ICES newsletter was titled "HOW MUCH SHOULD I CHARGE?"  By Filomena Trautwein - NJ   from confectionery (sic) arts guild newsletter.

We discussed prices a few weeks ago and looked at some specific cakes in the Wilton books as a common source.   This week we are going to get into more of what it really involves when you do cakes for other people.  I will put in quotes all of the direct quotes I will be using from the ICES newsletter.  Sometimes when you first get into this field you feel awkward about charging your friends for your work.   "Knowing how to establish cake prices can be a problem, but it need not be if one considers the following:"

1.  Taking the customer's order."    If you take that order over the phone you may only have 5 or 10 minutes involved.  If you have customers who come into your shop and look through your albums and want your constant attention then you may spend 30 minutes with them or up to 3 or 4 hours.  If they order a wedding cake but cannot decide everything they may want a second appointment with you and spend another 30 minutes to a couple of hours.    So you really could realistically have 5 minutes involved in the order process or 5 hours.   How much is your time worth?

2.  Ordering the supplies and ingredients, which will require at least one round trip to the supplier."    The cost of the supplies (cardboard circles, separator plates, flour, sugar, eggs, and etc). Plus your time, plus your gas and wear and tear on your vehicle.

3.  If ordering supplies by mail, the time required to total the costs, write a check, address the envelope, stamp it and send it off.  When the order arrives, you must unpack it and check it in.  If there is an error, you must take additional time to straighten it out."   Or if you have called the order in you also will have the long distance charge on your phone bill.

4.  Use of your equipment to prepare the batter, fillings, and icing."   Wear and tear on your mixers, bowls, pans, beaters and etc.   Replacement cost for those bowls  or buckets that you keep your extra icing in.   I love the big buckets that hold 15 lbs  of Bakels rolled fondant.  We use those to store our buttercream icing until we get ready to use it.   And they are also great for storing that icing in the refrigerator for the next week.   Recycle those buckets folks.

5.  Use of your oven for baking pus the gas or electricity it takes."   Electricity and gas to operate the equipment don't come free.  Ovens, refrigerators, heating and cooling systems, mixers, air brushes, lights and even pasta machines all require energy we must pay for.

6.  The time needed to prepare the cake for icing or using your freezer for freezing your layers for decorating, as for a large wedding cake."

AGAIN WE COME BACK TO TIME - YOUR TIME IS WORTH SOMETHING.  The time it takes you to  cover the cardboards, level the cakes and crumb coat them is part of the cost.  Just because you are doing this from your home or for a friend doesn't mean it does not have financial worth.  One reason bakeries keep their designs very elementary is because they understand that a decorators time is money.  The more time spent the more money they must charge.  Therefore most bakery cakes must be done very quickly without the detail I love to do.

7.  The time required to ice the cake and decorate it, using the supplies you have purchased."  Time, time, time  -  your time should be work more than the few supplies you are using to create that one cake.

8.  If it's a wedding cake, consider the delivery.  If no deliver is involved, you will have to store it until the customer comes for it."  And you will have to stay home or at your store,  or hire someone to be at your home or store until someone picks up all of the cakes.

9.  USE OF YOUR VEHICLE FOR DELIVERY OF A WEDDING CAKE: The time to carry it inside the reception hall and set it up.  You may even be asked to serve it.   When delivering some wedding cakes you may only need 10 minutes to set it up but you have the gas, wear and tear on your vehicle (tires and motor) and gas to get you there and back.   Other cakes may require an hour or two to set up at the wedding reception site - you need to figure that into your prices.

10.  The time required to clean your work area, pans, tips, and tools after the cake or cakes have been prepared."   I am sure some of you have elves who come in and put everything back up in your kitchens.  Right?   LOL    Don't we all wish we had some of those elves.   The creative work is done and the cake is out the door and probably half eaten before we get that mess cleaned up and everything put back where it belongs.   Again this is time that should be figured into the cost of those cakes.  It is part of the process of making those cakes.

11.  After a wedding, the time required to wash the returned (hopefully) separator plates, pillars, etc. (do not forget to charge a deposit on these - at least $10.00 - because many times these are thrown away or lost!)    If a bride has only given you a deposit of $10 on your equipment - there is no incentive for her to return that equipment to you quickly or at all.   Make your deposit enough that she wants that money back in her hands.  She does not need your equipment but, if there is no incentive and she is busy she may wait months to bring back your things that you need this weekend.   I charge a $100 deposit - believe me they want that back.   If they don't get that equipment back to me by Wednesday they then owe me another $5 per day for late charges.  If they haven't returned that equipment in two weeks then their deposit money is mine even if they return the equipment.  This does get their attention and you get your things back rapidly.

12.  Finally,  the cost, no matter how slight, for business expenses - order forms, business cards, signs, telephone, etc.   These are all legitimate business expenses that your cake money must cover.   Computer electricity,  AOL expenses so that you can attend the chats or download them from Dolores's web page.   Acquiring recipes from the internet.   Ordering supplies through the computer. All of those little things that we forget cost us money besides the time in making up our

FORMS, BUSINESS CARDS AND WEB PAGES.
This is by no means a complete list.  Any experienced decorator could probably add another dozen items.  A cake decorator puts in a great deal of time and effort, so don't give your creativity away!

YOU ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY YOU MAKE !!"
When you buy a new vehicle we each must consider just where those cakes are going to sit - how we are going to deliver that 7 tiered wedding cake in a jaguar?
     Nope we have to pass that up.   You will find most of us over in the van area.   Vans are higher to start with and then the gas to run them is also more expensive because of the size of the vehicle.

Those special tools our husbands have to cut our boards.   The time he spends cutting out those special shape and size boards,  cabinets,  and other needs that we coerce him into building for us.  The cost of the wood, screws, threaded rod, nails, glue and etc.

And the most expensive thing of all.................the wear and tear on your nerves,  and what your family and friends must put up with.   How many of you can plan to go out regularly with friends on Friday nights like non-decorators.  How many ball games do you miss with your children?   How many nights do you sit up and work on a cake after everyone else is in bed?    Are we gluttons for punishment?  Or do we just love this so much that we think this is normal.    Lol

You and your time are valuable.    Never feel guilty about what you charge unless you are deliberately overcharging your customers.  I had one cake decorator who told me she never priced a cake until she saw the kind of car they drove up in and the size of the girls ring.    That should not determine what my time is worth.

NEXT WEEK: Thursday, March 19, 1998 at 9 PM ET in the Kitchen Conference Room -- Cake Decorating with Dolores777 and Pwd sugar: "MAKING ROSES AND OTHER ICING FLOWERS'?"

JudyCakes2: when you figure a wedding cake do you charge by the hour and how much
Dolores777: by the serving mostly

Momof47035: are there books out there, to learn how to make different flowers and the tips used?
Dolores777: I recommend the Wilton encyclopedias for a great start
Bakn Beth: I just ordered the Wedding book from you Dolores
Millie D2: Dolore's book is great.  I can't put it down
Bakn Beth: Go to her web site she has alot of books you'll enjoy Dav

ICES:
Vicake: Beth, you would really enjoy the newsletter
Dolores777: I bet ICES has really grown because of the web and A OL!

Momof47035: I'm a cake decorator for a grocery store and i have problems with my icing cracking. Is this from a frozen cake
MaraTLee: Momo, you may be over beating your icing,
Momof47035: our icing comes from Brill already made
MaraTLee: momo, call the company, they should be able to tell you what to do to fix it
Vicake: MOmo you may not have enough boards or support under your cakes. If you are using single weight boards they are too flexible and icing cracks
Dolores777: cracking...not enough shortening will do that too
MaraTLee: or baking soda instead of baking powder or vise versa

Lady Biron: okay i'll ask my question again does any one have a recipe for black velvet cake?
Bluepod: Lady..Have you posted your question on the cake decorators message board?
Lady Biron: it is supposed to be made with the black velvet liquor.

Bakn Beth: I really need this info about how to charge, Wait till you all hear what I just quoted..
Minna111: I gave my customers 1 hour, then charged $5.00 over that when they came for consultation $5.00 per hr, that is, that way, they don't linger forever
Dolores777: good idea Minna
Minna111: They know where they stand right from the beginning. Some linger forever and tell their life history
Dolores777: new customers MUST come in to order from us...we are turning away bus. right & left - no choice, can't do more than about 50 fancy cakes for Sat. etc
Bakn Beth: I just quoted a women a price for a 1/2 sheet & a Barney Cake for $30. I am a pushover, I feel bad when they don't have money have the money

Tha503: me too bakin beth i have done cakes for just cost of supplies for people that i know don't h
MaraTLee: Tha, will they return you the favor when you don't have the money?
Tha503: probably not!
Dolores777: Bakn...for wedding cakes I offer 'budget' cakes for them...fast and easy - and they pick

Bakn Beth: I deliver for free also
Dolores777: All bakeries charge to deliver in my area now - or charge in the price and say its free
Minna111: Never deliver free, in the time it takes to deliver, you can make 2 cakes!
Bakn Beth: I know but how do I enforce it
MaraTLee: I include the price of delivery and set up into the cake budget.
Icing Wiz: I don't deliver free but add it into the price of the cake $20 to deliver wedding cakes
Cindycake1: You add a little extra to the wedding cake itself
Gigimama: I only deliver tiered cakes, not novelty cakes
Dolores777: I like not delivering the budget cakes, so this works well for me
Bakn Beth: How much do you charge for character-shaped cakes?
MaraTLee: I start at 1.75-----some people complain but I tell them , I don't charge for delivery and set up.  so they think they get that for nothing!!!
Laffwme: how can you charge for delivery....don't you have to set it up??? wedding, I mean. Midwest runs 1.50-2
Dolores777: Laff...many you wouldn't
Minna111: I retired in '91 and was getting $25. for ANY character cake
Icing Wiz: Unfortunately I live far out and have to deliver all my cakes no one would drive 25 miles for a birthday cake
Dolores777: Icing...that IS a dif. matter...I can understand this.
Millie D2: I can get up to $55 for a 2-layer character cake
Minna111: I really rather do airbrush and copy napkins, etc, then no worry about law suit
Cindycake1: People scream here if you charge more than $1.20 a serving for wedding cake
Bakn Beth: WOAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bakn Beth: How
Dolores777: we don't advertise our cakes and try to stay close by
Minna111: I got $1.50 in 1991 in poor old NH
Tha503: I do cakes mostly for coworkers so i just bring them with me to work when I come in
MaraTLee: Cindy, I tell them to take all the other charges into consideration and they find that I' m still the most inexpensive.
Minna111: A good way to start new cake business is to bring one to any school function you can
Bakn Beth: Millie how do you get people to pay that much
Icing Wiz: I think it depends on cake if fondant it should be at least $3.50 a slice but avg. buttercream $1.25 - $1.50 is avg. price
Cindycake1: I have good business but I do lose some in all the work
Minna111: I got $5.00 for rolled fondant w/gumpaste
Dolores777: in most areas you can go to the baker's supply for sugar etc..even for home...way cheaper,
Millie D2: I live in the city, nice neighborhood.  They don't care as long as it tastes good and looks
Icing Wiz: gumpaste would definitely be more those flowers take a long time
Millie D2: beautiful
Cindycake1: especially with gumpaste work. They don't realize how much time it takes
Minna111: Millie, that was the same with all my customers, too
Laffwme: doesn't it make you all nervous not to know how your crumb and texture will be?
Bakn Beth: 777 I buy the icing buy the tub & mix 50 lb bags
Dolores777: there is a BIG demand for Millie's type of cakes...people want quality more than anything
Minna111: Quality says it all, they leave for low price, but return for quality
Laffwme: I am the one cutting it and finding out!!!!
Cindycake1: I love it when they tell me the Grocery Store tastes bad!
Gigimama: Not here, they just want cheap, don't care if its good
Laffwme: let me tell you they may look nice, but after cut it is taste taste taste
MaraTLee: I wouldn't want the clientele that puts price above taste and eye appeal
Minna111: Mara, me either
Dolores777: Gigi...maybe this depends on our area...everyone works and has money in Butler Co OH...
Vicake: A lot of your pricing has to depend on the competition's prices
Dolores777: looks like they do anyway...they'll pay whatever to get a good cake
Millie D2: Manhattan, where are you guys?
Bakn Beth: I am in IND but the Chicagoland area, if a home baker here is to high, people don't care
Icing Wiz: that is true Vicake
Laffwme: dolores, butler co???I am in Montgomery
MaraTLee: Vic, I think that you could be a bit wrong there.
Gigimama: My area is very diverse, to the east of me they are pretty redneck and cheap,
Minna111: If someone compared my price to competition i always answered "she/he knows what her/his ...
Minna111: work is worht!
MaraTLee: If, I did that I would be pricing my cakes at supermarket prices, the market is less than 5 miles from my shop
Bakn Beth: about going to a bakery for the cheap things they put out it is sad.
Icing Wiz: Hi Lourdes
Dolores777: Laff...you are 45 min. from me!!!! In Hamilton
Gigimama: to the west are more sophisticated and willing to spend $ for quality
Laffwme: I am a chef/caterer here...
Vicake: I'm not talking supermarket, other specialty bakeries, Mara

Tha503: I'm thinking of taking a 1 day class in gum paste is this enough to get you started?
Cindycake1: That and a lot of practice for gumpaste
Icing Wiz: that depends on length of class and teacher Tha503
Tha503: its a 7 hr class
Icing Wiz: You will probably learn 3-5 flowers
Minna111: Tha, one class gets you a good start, if teacher is good, and go on from there
Icing Wiz: there are a lot more supplies to get too $$$$$
Dolores777: gumpaste:::I feel it is best to first take a little course using the Wilton gp kit...then go
Icing Wiz: there is a great teacher who teaches fondant and gumpaste in Ft. Lauderdale

Bakn Beth: What big buckets?
Bakn Beth: 777 how long does DAWN icing last..
MaraTLee: Wish the regal ice came in buckets:(
Dolores777: Mara...we give them away! I bet we have 20 a week
Minna111: Mara, it's easy enough to transfer to a bucket!

Icing Wiz: I learned how to do it from scratch two weekends ago and it was
better tasting and not that hard
MaraTLee: Yes, Icing, I mix 1/2 and 1/2----
Bakn Beth: 777 how long does the tubs of DAWN icing stay good once opened?
MaraTLee: Dawn, it would smell rancid , I gather
Minna111: It will smell rancid, i always made up fresh for all cakes each day
Dolores777: freezing <---what we do at graduation time...terrible
Icing Wiz: if all else fails call the company Beth I am sure they will know how long it lasts
Minna111: I don't like to take chances with the quality of my icing. I only did 75 to 90 a week
Dolores777: wow...minna, do you make icing every day like that???
Minna111: I did, I was all alone, too, that's why I burned out! 41 yrs is enough!
Vicake: Beth, you could freeze part of it for later use
Dolores777: good idea Bakin...I heard someone froze the icing and was fine
Icing Wiz: I make my icing from scratch and keep refrigerated up to 2 weeks
Minna111: I would never have had refrig room enough for all i used!
Ciera123: I was told Dawn icing lasts up to 6 months.
Tha503: me too icing wiz
Vicake: you can freeze icing, just re-beat and adjust texture if necessary
L2jlu2: what is Dawn icing?
Dolores777: Dawn...big manuf. co. makes icing
Dolores777: let icing return to room temp before doing anything tho
Tha503: is it any good?
Dolores777: its great - Tha
Tha503: how do you get it?
L2jlu2: Do you have there #? are they any good?
Dolores777: Dawn...is wholesale...you can't go there...buy from your supplier
Dolores777: i can make roses with dawn icing without adding p. sugar ---unless you have a shop

Bakn Beth: OK 1 last question then I will stop
Bakn Beth: Can you decorate a character cake then freeze it? If so how will
it taste
VincJes: What is a character cake?
Dolores777: Vinc = star fill-in cakes
Bakn Beth: A cake shaped like Barney for instance
Cindycake1: Your colors could run when thawed out
Tha503: i made one for my daughter froze it 1 week and it was fine
Minna111: Freeze it uncovered, then wrap well. Unwrap to thaw IN REFRIGERATOR
MaraTLee: you can thaw in front of a small fan to dry up moisture
Minna111: Make sure it thaws completely in fridge, so colors wont run
Bakn Beth: Freeze uncovered won't it taste bad?
Minna111: bakn, all you need frozen to wrap is outside
Dolores777: Bakin/ I wrap & seal tightly before I freeze anything
Bakn Beth: Wrap with tinfoil/saran/or what
Icing Wiz: I like the freezer bags look like giant ziplocks

Dimples498: does anyone know what I can use on a cake to resemble mirrors?
Minna111: Dimples they used to have small ones for cake dec.
Gigimama: Dimples, piping gel on foil
Shavkin: What's the theme and decorations, Dim?
Bakn Beth: Dimples, go to a craft store, they have small mirrors there
Dimples498: I thought of doing that gigi
MaraTLee: Dimples, are you placing those mirrors on your cake?????
Cindycake1: Mirrors look wonderful under the cake too
Vicake: Instead of mirrors everyone here is using silver cake platforms
Shavkin: That's why I asked what's the theme and decorations so I could know. Why mirrors (simulated ones).
Dimples498: I need to make the cake look like a taekwondo school room with mirrors.   for my son's B-day
Shavkin: what is a taekwondo school room?
MaraTLee: Dimples, I would use aluminum foil, not mirrors, especially around kids
Minna111: I'd use foil & gel, if not for customer who prefers other
VincJes: Dimples, are the mirrors supposed to be edible?
Dimples498: yes they are supposed to be edible so i  thing real mirrors would be out LOL
Cindycake1: How about grey icing with piping gel over it?
VincJes: Dimples, some gelatin leaves may give the impression of mirrors?
MaraTLee: Vinc, good idea, could use edible silver on that.
Icing Wiz: I think Diane's idea of silver cake board would be perfect for mirrors
Dimples498: Cindy  good idea  maybe I'll try that.. I'm going to try on a practice cake this weekend

Sasadj: Hi, I have another question, How do you get stiff peaks from egg whites?
Minna111: Sasa start with a clean grease free bowl and beaters
MaraTLee: Sas, you beat them until they are stiff, not dry in a clean , grease free bowl, you can add a pinch of salt
Shavkin: Being sure there is NO grease at all in the bowl.
Sasadj: But, I beat and nothing happened, how long should it take?
Shavkin: Do u use cream of tartar?
Sasadj: Would it help if I used a blender or a mixer, or should it be by hand?
Minna111: Sas what kind of mixer do you use?
Sasadj: I don't know the brand, but it's the kind with to beaters.
Dolores777: Kitchen Aid mixers are all most of us use
Sasadj: I know, but is there such a big difference, I just want to know how long it should take
Dimples498: Are kitchen aid mixers the same as the sunbeam mixers?
Minna111: Sas, that takes in about 100 brands!
Sasadj: Thanks for the tips, I'll try them.
Millie D2: I love my Kitchen Aid
Icing Wiz: Kitchen Aid is the best!
Dimples498: But i have a sunbeam mix master  with the 2 beaters.. will that work just as well?
Icing Wiz: I don't think so dimples
Cindycake1: You'll probably burn it up. Kitchen Aide is the best
Dimples498: this one has the stand and is the same size as the kitchen aid ones I've seen

Bakn Beth: OK so maybe just one more question, how much would you pay an assistant? To just bake or jus
Dolores777: Bakn...I wish we could find someone!

Icing Wiz: I have gotten them back unwashed plastics in plastic grocery bag and forgot about them YUK!
Minna111: i charged $1.00 for EACH post and EACH plate, they return them that way
Dolores777: Icing...that smells bad...I won't have them dribbling icing thru my shop!
Minna111: Excuse $1.00 each inch of plate (8" plate set-$8)
Dolores777: we charge $10.00 per 100 servings to wash the plastics
Dolores777: ....and always inspect your plastics for breakage
Bakn Beth: I don't charge for deposit on wedding items and BOY did I learn my lesson quick!!
Cindycake1: Plastic stairways break sooo easy too
MaraTLee: I had a bride return my fountain, In pieces, I put it together in front of her and found there were missing pieces!! I kept her deposit
Minna111: I always made them buy and own the stairway
Dolores777: Cindy>>>I put 'unbroken' on the returns list...works too!
Bakn Beth: I have not done a wedding cake since OCT because of this, I was upset
Dolores777: if they break they buy
Minna111: I always made a contract that took in EVERYTHING!
Gigimama: How much deposit do you charge for a fountain?  They're so expensive to replace!
Dolores777: fountain...$80.00
Dolores777: they don't forget $80.00!
MaraTLee: Gigi, charge replacement cost. In case you have to buy a new one, like I did.
Bakn Beth: How do you enforce the deposit, around here, its like "oh well" whats 25.00 they steal & break things like its nothing
Minna111: Fountain = $100.00 deposit, $75. returned for fountain in good condition upon ret.
Vicake: We charge $60 deposit on fountain set up, 2 plates,4 columns & fountain
Dolores777: Bakn...they pay before they get the cake...I have their money
Gigimama: How much do you charge for use of the fountain, to repay your initial investment?
Dolores777: I've had them break 2 fountains in 30 years, not bad
Icing Wiz: Beth you have to view as business you want to make $ not lose it
MaraTLee: Gigi, I charge a hefty deposit , but only 10-20 dollars to rent
Minna111: I got $25.00 dep on large fountain plates in addition to fount chg
VincJes: Dolor, do you mean, people decorate a cake with a fountain?
Icing Wiz: If they don't like it they can go somewhere else
Dolores777: Vinc...wedding cake w/fountain under
Bakn Beth: I try but like I said around here it is no big deal, if you are more $ than a bakery they wo
Minna111: dimp, size doesn't matter, kitchenaid is best, (my opinion)
VincJes: Oh, thanks
Bakn Beth: won't use you, they don't care about beauty or quality.
OnlineHost: GrenThumb2 has entered the room.
Cindycake1: The sound of running water really sounds nice in a reception hall
MaraTLee: Beth, you must educate your clientele.....
Dolores777: Bakn...I think you sell yourself short...have a policy and stick to it ->in writing
Cindycake1: If you don't charge enough your customers will run right over you
Bakn Beth: Thats why I just bought your Book 777
Dolores777: Cindy RIGHT! And they won't THINK you are the BEST
Icing Wiz: I agree w/Cindy
Gigimama: Beth, how long have you been in business?  Where are you?
Vicake: You are only worth what you think you are worth, I think
CarolA5238: I charge 200. deposit or I cut the cake for 20 to 40 dollars and take everything when I leav
Dolores777: Vi...I really do agree with you on this
MaraTLee: Perceived value and all that good stuff.........
Minna111: Self confidence can make you worth more than any bakery around
Bakn Beth: Not in the area since 1995 but in business since then
Dimples498: Maybe thats what i will spend my tax refund on  LOL
Gigimama: I'm in the same situation, only start 6 mo ago , though
Dolores777: everything we do is in contract and they know exactly what we expect
MaraTLee: Hear, hear, Minna
Icing Wiz: I had a student who told her husband everyone in the class had one so she needed a Kitchen Aid and there were only one other student and me the teacher LOL
Gigimama: I think if your in an area that has never seen quality work, it takes awhile to educate them
Gigimama: They are so used to supermarket cakes, they are ignorant to all the other options
MaraTLee: You cannot give up the fight.  I've been doing it for about 3 year and just now
Gigimama: other that sheets with roses or plastic junk
Bakn Beth: But in this area they have seen it just they don't want to pay for it.
Dolores777: Gigi...right..be firm and business like
MaraTLee: beginning to hear, word of mouth customers,  "she's worth it"
Icing Wiz: Tell your husband you want a Kitchen aid for your Birthday
Millie D2: That's how I got mine.  birthday gift
Bakn Beth: Chicagoland area (NW Indiana)-since 1995
Minna111: I have 2-5a's and 2 4 qt Kitchenaids and also a 20 qt Hobart
Minna111: and they were all buzzing all the time!
Cindycake1: A lot of my customers haven't heard of Fondant because they are used to supermarkets
Gigimama: I refuse to compromise, if they can't appreciate it, they don't deserve my cakes, anyway!
CarolA5238: I'm from Corning, N.Y. but now live in San Antonio, Tex.
Icing Wiz: word of mouth especially if it tastes good
Icing Wiz: agree GIGI
Dolores777: Gigi...me too, we 'close the book'
Shavkin: Great, Carol!
Minna111: I served a sample of my cake when bride came to order her cake
Vicake: it will pay off in the long run GIgi, stick by your guns
MaraTLee: Most of the brides that are coming in already know how much I get
for my cakes and are there to book.
Gigimama: Try to get your pictures in peoples faces so they can see what real decorated cakes can be
Bakn Beth: I give a 4.5 inch cake as a sample fully decorated it doesn't always help.
Gigimama: like, for just a little more!
Vicake: it takes a while to build a reputation for quality and excellent work
MaraTLee: Amen
Cindycake1: Yes, word of mouth is the best advertisement.
Dolores777: i don't have time for samples but they ask.
Icing Wiz: Beth how long have you been in cakes?
Minna111: Beth, I gave a 6" cake for wedding gift, so bride can keep instead of top layer
Bakn Beth: It is mostly at the Bridal shows where they are cheap skates.. We pay 500-750 to participate
Minna111: I decorated it exactly like her cake top layer
Dolores777: I think most of our brides already get cakes from us
MaraTLee: Dee, we do it for the love of the art, but , we are beginning to awaken
Bakn Beth: in this show, they think they will have to pay less than 1.00 per slice, pleaseeeeeee
Minna111: Mara, I did it for $$$$ after 10 yrs of pleasure!
Dolores777: right Mara...me too
MaraTLee: I refuse to compromise
Icing Wiz: You definitely need to move Beth
Minna111: Because after time, you need it for the chiropractor!!!
Gigimama: Beth, tell them that here in Washington, DC they START at $2.50
CkeLdy: nite Diane
Dolores777: we don't budge an inch LOL
MaraTLee: Icing, Beth doesn't need to move, she needs to toughen up
Bakn Beth: I just did, I had no problem where I was, I was to busy there.  I just moved in OCT97
Dolores777: Gigi...I heard $4.50 there
Minna111: All decorators need to make sure their work is worth the price they charge
Gigimama: Beth, where were you before?
Icing Wiz: I agree if her cakes are delicious and look good she needs to stick to her guns
MaraTLee: Amen, Minna
Minna111: no one wants to pay top price for bottom work!
Millie D2: I agree too
Bakn Beth: Danville, Illinois very small everyone knew me
Gigimama: Dee, that is probably average for the fancier weddings
Dolores777: Minna...do you still do cakes?
MaraTLee: I invest thousands of dollars every year to freshen my skill and keep up to date
Gigimama: I think sometimes it is easier to get going in a small town
MaraTLee: I can't afford to be "nice"
Dolores777: Gigi...I see. it said that in our newspaper once
Minna111: Beth, I live in VERY small town, 2500 until 1992 and got top prices
Cindycake1: Did you watch the Oprah show 2 weeks ago on movie star weddings?
Bakn Beth: I have beautiful professional quality work in which I pride myself highly on
Gigimama: usually no good bakeries, and word spreads faster
Dolores777: but their cost of living is relevant
Minna111: I still get at least 4 calls a week
Dimples498: Beth i used to live in Illinois
Cindycake1: They brought NYC women out to California to do cakes
Cindycake1: $1500 for a small one to feed 200 people!
Bakn Beth: Where Dimp.
Minna111: Bakn, then you're worth the price you want to get, don't give in
Dimples498: Northbrook
MaraTLee: Cindy, that's my dream, Big bucks for a little cake   LOL
Icing Wiz: Collete Peters got $20,000 for a cake on Oprah
Dolores777: Colette Peters is going to be at the OH Day Of Sharing the last Sunday of April>>>>
Cindycake1: $20,000??? Wow!
Vicake: me too Mara
Tha503: WOW! was it made of gold?
Minna111: Starr ??? from CT moved to Ca and got enormous prices out there
Dolores777: Bakn...how close is it to Indy?
Icing Wiz: no but did have gold dust
Dimples498: sounds familiar...
MaraTLee: I know for a fact that my work is good, even Colette liked it.--LOL
Minna111: she got $100 for 6" with fondant
Dolores777: LOL...that's a vote Mara
MaraTLee: You bettcha-----even though... I did take it with a grain of salt.....
MaraTLee: Dee, most of us can write off the computers, if we are using for business, also, some of us pay accountants-----LOL
Vicake: If I could get those prices, I could be a lot more creative and not have to do so much stuff

CarolA5238: It was a great cake show in Dallas last week-end., so many pretty cakes,WOW!
Minna111: Dee, it sure is nice to be online and able to talk to all my ICES buddies regularly

Gigimama: How long does it take the rest of you to ice and decorate, say an 11 X 15 with scenery and figure piped animals?
Cindycake1: It might take 2 or 3 hours
Gigimama: Not airbrushed, all buttercream stenciling or piping. The baking takes the longest
Minna111: 11 X 15, iced and decorated with airbrush, maybe 1/2 hour from start to boxed
Vicake: We try for l5 minutes but sometimes takes 30
Icing Wiz: Where I live the millionaires are more per capita than any other place
Minna111: 1/2 hour stencils make work easy
Cindycake1: I like doing the 2-D work on cupcakes. I get .50 to .75 each for
them Gigimama: It takes me much longer!  I take too long deciding exactly what to do, colors, etc I have trouble blending colors, too
Cindycake1: Gigi, I start with an idea and then I take too much time doing all the extra neat stuff
Gigimama: Me, too.  Right now I have the time, so I get carried away with details!
Dolores777: Cindy- I use o do that too. But you are learning all the while...and prob a perfectionist to
Cindycake1: Me too! But I think it looks so nice when you pay attention to it
Gigimama: I figured after paying for supplies, I make about $2/hr, not counting the time shopping, designing, and cleaning up
Cindycake1: My husband says I give away my work when I do that
VALRIOS1: gigi, same here, so i decided to bake just for special occasions and for friends as gifts
Gigimama: But, I figured I would take home about the same if I worked outside the home

Minna111: anyone use Carole Faxon's stencils?
Dolores777: we do Minna...use everyone's! Her books sell very well too
MaraTLee: Minna, I took classes with Carole Faxon---she's very nice. She came to judge PA show, did demo, had met her before though
Icing Wiz: Carole did a demo at our last DOS in Ft. Lauderdale

Dolores777: Carol...that was last weekend...nice that it went so well
CarolA5238: I had a real nice time Baby-sitting cakes , darn people can't keep there hands off.

VALRIOS1: has anybody hear of cake decorator pens?
Dolores777: VAL:::there is a pict. of those on my web site
MaraTLee: Si, Val---I get them from England and use on rolled fondant and rice paper
Cindycake1: Cake decorator pens are great! you just fill them with air brush colors and draw away
VALRIOS1: mara. oi want them fro rice paper
Cindycake1: Do you carry Dec Pens Dolores? (YES)
VALRIOS1: Dolores, I will check your web site fro those pens , thanks

VALRIOS1: how much would any of you charge for a cake of 2-9 inch hearts, side bu side, decorated with pastry pride cream and real fresh flowers, bridal shower cake?
Cindycake1: They are totally covered in gumpaste flowers, ooh, the work
Dolores777: VAL...one cake mix - here - about 15-18.00, then add on the cost of the gp flowers separately.
VALRIOS1: two layer each, Dolores, strawberries fresh filling
Minna111: VAL i would charge at least $25
MaraTLee: Val, fresh strawberries are 2.79 a pint now. I just raised my prices for fresh fruit fillings
Burttafly: Dolores, Minna,  do you think you ever get paid enough for the creativity and of course the hours spend on a cake???

Minna111: You have to work harder with real flowers and be sure they aren't poisonous
Minna111: I hate using real flowers, how about you others?
Bakn Beth: I hate it because people don't understand not to eat them...like I said earlier they are
VALRIOS1: i only use fresh flowers for shower or wedding cakes
Burttafly: Dolores, you are paying to the talent behind the cake
MaraTLee: Beth, I will be doing a 15 minutes on TV (cable show) on not using fresh flowers on cake!!LOL
VALRIOS1: i like very delicate cakes, fresh baby roses most of the time
Cindycake1: That needs to go in contract, too. Not responsible for real flower illnesses
Minna111: If my customer wanted fresh flowers, I told her I would get cake ready, but fresh is .... the florists job
MaraTLee: Beth, you don't know what's going to crawl out of a fresh flower...LOL
VALRIOS1: always place a piece of saran wrap in between cake and flowers, the plastic doesnt show
Dolores777: fresh flowers are poison unless organically grown and they never ARE!
Burttafly: Minna, organic flower would be the best for cake right??? florist use way too many chemicals
Dolores777: Icing goes on cakes and flowers in vases...I like to have icing flowers so my cake is pretty
MaraTLee: Dee, even if they are organically grown, you still don't know , what was used. Some organic farmers -----YES MINNA__ I didn't want to say. Also, some organic farmers use other bugs to eat the bad bugs, so you may have a little critter crawling around on your cake-
Butterfly pansies are pretty and editable and so are roses
Minna111: I don't recommend fresh AT ALL! Organic is cow poop, you know!!! Or maybe fish guts
Bakn Beth: I like to make icing flowers because I want to take all the credit for the beauty, not the florist
Dolores777: And if I put them on I charge. Florists like to duck out and make you do it for free
VALRIOS1: i think fresh flowers make a cake pretty too, maybe because i don't have the talent to make my own icing flowers
Burttafly: Minna,  I think  organic means the stuff on the flowers that keep flowers fresh too
Cindycake1: Fresh flowers are expensive too
Minna111: Burt you never know, it's bet to learn to make icing flowers if only one or two kinds
Dolores777: My sis-in-law is allergic to the spray on a corsage & makes her nose bleed...formelgahyde is sprayed on those flowers
Minna111: Ye, Burt, but not sanitary or healthy
MaraTLee: Yes, Dee, that little story has gotten my more orders, where do I send the check?
CarolA5238: I charge good for fresh flowers too.
Burttafly: MaraTLee,  you can put flowers in freezer for a bit if you are
Minna111: why take chances? We're cake decorators, not florists
Dolores777: A pretty icing bouquet for the top can be made using a little batter in the ball cake pan
MaraTLee: Exactly,---I do only one thing well and that is decorate a cake, let the florist worry about earning their fee, they charge enough!
Bakn Beth: I have to go, now I've been grossed out with the bug thoughts....
VALRIOS1: I'm a cake decorator but i decorate with fresh flowers, and not for
that im a florist

Chef Monta: where is the ices convention
Dolores777: St Paul MN