DON'T FORGET TO TURN ON YOUR LOG TO RECORD OUR CHAT TONIGHT: TO DO:  AT THE TOP OF YOUR AOL MENU, CLICK ON <<FILE>>, SCROLL DOWN TO <<LOG MANAGER>> CLICK ON OPEN LOG...... AND SAVE-AS ---ANY NAME ...CAKECHAT.LOG (ETC) IN
A FOLDER (DIRECTORY) ... AFTER YOU EXIT AOL YOU CAN USE ANY WORDPROCESSOR TO OPEN AND READ IT.
DASZIE: how do you know it is on?
Dolores777: you don't know its on - can't see it til you exit aol. Using Windows 95, you can look at it by opening EXPLORER and double-click the chat.log to open.

Dolores777: PWD SUGAR CAN'T BE WITH US AGAIN TONIGHT. HER DAD IS STILL GRAVELY ILL. SHE AND HER FAMILY ARE SPENDING MOST OF THEIR TIME AT HIS BEDSIDE. THEY ARE HAVING A HARD TIME OF IT. HER DAD HAS HEART TROUBLE AND IT CAN'T BE 'FIXED'. PLEASE KEEP PWD SUGAR AND HER FAMILY IN YOUR PRAYERS.

LATER WE WILL HAVE 'OPEN MIKE' AND WE WOULD LIKE IT IF YOU WOULD ADD YOUR INPUT, PLEASE.. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU ARE MOST WELCOME TO ADD COMMENTS AND TO ASK QUESTIONS.

Honeybells: Hi everyone, my first time here. What is fondant?
Fondant is an icing you roll out like pie dough and drape over the cake. You can read all about it on my web site.

BESMITH398: how do i get started decorating and how do you determine the prices?
Dolores777: BIES...they have been discussing that on my message board - my web site... also here in aol 'discuss cake decorating'. We did a chat on pricing 1-2 weeks ago too
Honeybells: Is there any way to see prior chats?
Dolores777: Honey;;;yes, I have saved them all on my web site

Honeybells: Roses use stiff consistency, right?
Dolores777: consistency...if YOU think it is too stiff - it IS
Honeybells: Recipe in Wilton catalog.
Minna111: Honey if too stiff rose petal edges will be ragged
Dolores777: yes Honey, stiff, but not so stiff that it breaks the petals
DASZIE: on a nail dolores
Dolores777: on a nail - yes
Honeybells: Well, that is my problem, all look like shredded roses.
MANDMRSJ2: OOH--What is a nail?
DASZIE: and what size tip do you start with
Icing Wiz: flower nail
Dolores777: also...I 'fix' my 104 tip. I squeeze the large end not so open...makes thinner petals
Minna111: me too
Dolores777: the Wilton brand 104 tip is too open on the big end to suit me
Honeybells: What do you mean? the large end?
Minna111: I like country kitchen 104
Icing Wiz: wilton has a new tip your petals come out curved but I can’t remember the #
Dolores777: Honey...tip 104 is bigger opening at one end
Honeybells: Oh, the large part of tip 104 - got it.
Honeybells: Icing, please remember.
MANDMRSJ2: Icing, what is a flower nail?  I've been trying to make flowers ON the cake...
Dolores777: I've had that curved tip for years...another brand. I used 116 I think was the #
Honeybells: Dol, do you like the curved tip?
Icing Wiz: You have to make flowers on the nail then put them on cake
Dolores777: MAND:::Its just as implied...a 'nail' with a very big head
Dolores777: no - I like tip 104 best once I work on it
Icing Wiz: Yes, I liked it I will find out and e mail you with #
MANDMRSJ2: Dol, thank you.  I had no idea what that thing was for!  sorry
Dolores777: MAND...browse a cake decorating supply shop sometime...you'll be hooked : )

"MAKING ROSES AND OTHER ICING FLOWERS'?"

Above all else, it takes PRACTICE. I don't think anyone can start right off being satisfied with their icing flowers. Practice is the main key
to satisfactory flowers. The other important key to making great icing flowers is the icing and it's consistency. If you remember PRACTICE and
ICING CONSISTENCY, you have a good start.

BUTTERCREAM PRACTICE ICING: This is the icing I have my students use until they learn. It is easier to get the consistency correct than other icings. If you know about icings, you will notice that this recipe contains more Crisco than usual. It is too greasy to continue using but
it will be easier to learn with.
Add in order given and beat until thoroughly dissolved::
1 cup Crisco
3 TB water
1/2 teas. vanilla extract
1 TB Meringue powder (this is added to help take away some of the 'grease' taste and to stabilize the icing...stabilize means it helps it
not to separate as it sits for a few days.
ADD slowly:
1 LB confectioners' sugar (sifted if using a hand-held mixer)

If you intend to ice and decorate a 1-mix cake, you will need to double this recipe. It is only enough for the decorations.
This icing makes roses easier to learn since you won't have to worry so much about the consistency. But, if this icing feels too stiff (feels
like its breaking your hand to squeeze it out), add a few drops of water.

Tha503: you mean you don't have to sift w/ a kitchen aid?
Dolores777: Tha, I don't
Dolores777: or if sugar is very lumpy always sift
Honeybells: Dolores, I bought Wilton clear extracts. However, I suggest using the regular for practices, do you think so?
Dolores777: right Honey...thats best for white icing
Icing Wiz: I always yse 10X not 4X
Dolores777: Honey...won't matter
Dolores777: 10X sugar has been sifted 10 times. There also is 12X p. sugar but very hard to find...so nice

RULES: If icing is too stiff, add more water. If it is too runny or thin, add more conf. sugar.

ROSES: The more you make, the better you become at it. Lets run through the procedure:
MAKE THE ROSE CENTER. I use tip 104 for making the bud, but you can use
the tip 12 at first. Its easier. With tip 12, hold the opening of the
tip close enough to the nail that the icing spreads out about as big
around as a nickel. Then gradually let up pressure as you raise the tip
to about 1" high. Stop and lift.

FOR THE ROSEBUD: Using tip 104, have the opening of the tip lined up
with the side of the center you just made. Place the tip firmly against
the center. Turning counter-clockwise (if you are right-handed
...lefties reverse directions), turn the nail and pipe the bud out. Stop
when you have overlapped where you started. Stop squeezing and lift the
tip away. If the angle of your bag is too low, the bud will be open too
much. If the bag is raised too high, the bud edge will stick out at the
bottom.

FOR THE FIRST ROW OF PETALS: Pipe all petals with the larger part of tip
104 opening downward. Lower the angle of tip 104...to about 3:00. Start
in the back of a previous petal. Press the tip firmly against the bud.
Squeeze out icing and turn the nail. Make 3 petals. Overlap where you
started.

FOR THE SECOND ROW OF PETALS: Now you must rotate tip 104 slightly
pointed out to your right. Press the tip firmly against the back of a
petal in the previous row. KEEPING THE TIP FIRMLY AGAINST THE ROSE, pipe
5 petals. The fifth should overlap the first petal.

FOR THE THIRD ROW OF PETALS: Rotate tip 104 even more pointed out to
your right. (Almost flat to the nail. If petals lay out too much, don't
lay it over so far). Press the tip firmly against the back of a petal in
the previous row. KEEPING THE TIP FIRMLY AGAINST THE ROSE, pipe 7
petals. The seventh should overlap the first.

HERE ARE SOME THINGS WATCH OUT FOR IF YOU ARE HAVING TROUBLE:
1. ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS...keep the large end of tip 104 touching the flower
at all times as you pipe petals...if you don't you get 'cabbages.' This
is the 'secret' to CONTROL of making a nice rose. Eventually, you may
want to try making different 'types' of roses. THIS is how it works.

2. ROTATE THAT TIP: Remember to rotate tip 104 out away from you as you
add petals. Rotate it our more as you add more petals. The more you
rotate it over, the more the petals lay out (making the rose look
'open').

3. ROSE PETAL INFO:...if all stood straight up, and none were 'curled' -
and you turn the rose upside down - ALL petals should touch the table!
(From a nice lady I took a gumpaste class from - Josepha Barloca many
moons ago! : ) ---). Don't make your centers too high and this isn't apt
to happen. But if you keep going down, down, down...your rose may look
more like a pinecone than a rose.

Millie D2: I've been using Hershey Kisses for the center.  They come out great. So much easier for me.
DASZIE: how tight need you hold the bag dolores (Keep it tightly closed on the other end…put a rubber band on it if nec., to keep closed.
Minna111: Millie, make sure if customer is allergic to chocolate?
MANDMRSJ2: Do you squeeze with one hand and hold the nail with other?
Minna111: yes
Dolores777: MAND:::yes you do...watch that you DO turn the nail too...beginners forget
Honeybells: Also, I'd like to know the exact point of where to start the petals.
Dolores777: Honey...start at the TOP of the center...a bit above it and always start in the back of the last petal when adding another - what I just sent you here.
Honeybells: Do you mean in the middle of the back of the last petal?
Dolores777: Honey:::yes thats it
Icing Wiz: overlap your petals
OnlineHost: Rkrtc has left the room.
Honeybells: My petals are "off the nail"...Each time you make a row of petals, should the tip be RESTING on the nail?
Dolores777: no Honey...it shouldn't be - maybe you are making your petals to wrap around too long?
Honeybells: This will take a lot of practice, I can see. A lot of buttercream iciing.
Dolores777: but I DO make pine cones..I make them on a straw and poke the straw & all into the cake
Bakerbear1: pinecones!!! great image....gotta remember that
Dolores777: Honey..it really does - thats the whole secret

Dimples498: i did a trial one this weekend ... Jamie( my son) liked the cake, but didn't like the frosting. He said it was too greasy... anything i can do to cut down on the greasy taste?
Dolores777: dimples...this is a 'practice icing'/ try a dif. recipe
Dimples498: "practice Icing " dolores..sorry ..what does that mean?

Carden1234: when i frost the icing gets the bag wet and slippery what's wrong
Dolores777: Carden...I bet you have an old canvas bag maybe? Or wiltons rubber 9" bag
Carden1234: not canvas more lik e nylon but it is older
Minna111: Car, try the new clear plastic - disposable
Dolores777: Carden...also...if bag gets like that put a paper towel over it a bit and it'll soak up the grease
Carden1234: could it be the recipe i am using?
Dolores777: no Carden
Mlwl62: Carden-use the featherweight bags, the frosting don't go through it, like the others

ROYAL ICING (For 'everyday' type of work)
Add in order given
5-6 TB warm-hot water
3 TB meringue powder
1/2 teas. Vanilla extract
Beat until frothed and all the meringue powder is dissolved- ADD:
1 lb confectioners' sugar (You don't have to add it all if icing appears thick enough before you get it all in.)

NOTE: If using a hand-held mixer: If the mixer gets hot or smokes, turn it OFF - now.
Turn on a timer to be sure you let it rest for 20 minutes. I always tell
my students this. Also, I advise those using this type of mixer not to
add all the conf. sugar. It bogs the mixer down too much. They will just
end up with thin consistency of icing and can mix in the rest by hand
when finished.
     A hand-held mixer isn't very pleasant to try to use for icings, but
it IS possible to get by with in a pinch. I made a big wedding cake in
CA once using my brother's old hand-held...didn't ruin it either. Took 2
hours to make icing for a 4-tier wedding cake I was making for my
niece's wedding.

Bakerbear1: i found the mixer i ued when i first started learning .....it
was a hand-size 5-speed....can't imagine using that now!
Minna111: Dee, I identify with tha, made niece's cake in FL with NO mixer!

Bakerbear1: been there, done that, got a kitchenaid LOL
CRSU005: Royal Icing is hard to do with a hand mixer
Dolores777: right on the Kitchen aid...me too
Honeybells: I LOVE my Kitchenaid.
MANDMRSJ2: Can Cream of Tartar replace meringue powder?
Dolores777: NO - cream of tartar is used to make royal icing harder when dried
Bakerbear1: although....haven't made royal with it yet....do you use the paddle or the whisk?
Dolores777: The paddle for making icing.
Dolores777: meringue p. is what makes it froth to a stiff peak
Dimples498: Do you use Meringue P. in color-flo  items?
Dolores777: Dimples...color flow mix dries much harder but is basically the
same

Keep this icing covered and guard against it crusting at all times.
Re-whip to re-use the following day or weeks later. Will keep
unrefrigerated for a few weeks. Keeps indefinitely refrigerated. NEVER
use crust.

All flowers are NOT made with the same consistency of icing! Use stiff
consistency for roses or drop flowers. Use medium consistency for
lilies, daisies, daffodils and most others.

PANSIES: I just have to mention that the pansies shown in your Wilton
Course book do NOT resemble real ones nearly as much as they could.
(This probably applies to many others). If you look at a seed/flower
catalog while you are making flowers, they will look more realistic.
There are many little touches you can change to make them more
realistic. I found the best pansy picture in an old computer magazine
LOL. I keep it with my course book so that I can point out what dif.
Flowers should look like. I find this important for making poinsettias,
daisies, pansies, petunias and many others.

ITS OPEN MIKE TIME....DO YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS THAT I HAVE FORGOTTEN TO
CONSIDER?

Dolores777: so keep those seed catalogs that are coming in the mail!
Honeybells: You mean we need to be THAT realistic?
Bakerbear1: the more the better honey
Mlwl62: thanks for the tip on the sed catalogs
Dolores777: and maybe you'll also find good flower pict. in other types of mag. too
Honeybells: I'll just put a picture of it on the cake.
Icing Wiz: Daisies are always hard for me until I remember how to hold tip and go from nail edge to middle
Dolores777: Honey...thats what we do after we learned the nitty gritty
MANDMRSJ2: How do you get the icing colors to "swirl" when making flowers?
Dolores777: MAND...icing swirls...its called bag striping. You put a stripe of deep colored icing up one side of the bag, then fill with a lighter color
MANDMRSJ2: which is accomplished by...?
MANDMRSJ2: And it'll just come out so perfectly? Just put a stripe of dark and fill wiht lighter and it automatically comes out so pretty?
Dolores777: MAND...not always...but you learn. On the 104 tip, you can easily
turn the tip to have a fine line of deep color on the edges of petals

GOOO8: Dee, will you be touching on Pastiallge? (spelling???)
Dolores777: GOOO...pastilage is like gumpaste only it dries harder. Is cheaper to make. Usually used to make 'buildings etc
Icing Wiz: Pastillage is also great for orchids and other flowers that can't be made w/royal or buttercream

Dolores777: Icing...daisies...I don't make like Wilton’s at all. I make a loop holding the small end of
Honeybells: Y'all are much more advanced that I.
Dolores777: the tip flat to the nail. This is their old way and SO much faster.
Icing Wiz: Dolores do you mean you go middle to edge then back?
Dolores777: yes icing I do
Dolores777: I use tp 101 for daisies

Honeybells: What tip for pansies?
Icing Wiz: Honey 104

Honeybells: What tip for daisies?
Icing Wiz: with 21 you can use striped bag for clowns
Icing Wiz: Honey 104
Dolores777: pansies: 103 for big petal and 104 for the 4 flatter ones

PRLioness: I need help. I bought a Darth Vader Wilton pan at a yard sale, no directions or picture. And my son wants it for his birthday
Icing Wiz: I have done that Darth Vader Pan very easy a lot of the same color
GOOO8: I finished a pooh cake yesterday and found I have better control w/#16 vs. triple tip
Bakerbear1: look up the star wars web page to get picture.....and use stars....lots of stars :)
PRLioness: I bought it at a yard sale, was made in 1980

MANDMRSJ2: One more question: How do you get the roses OFF of that nail?
Bakerbear1: scissors!
Dimples498: good question Mand !!!   i have wondered that too
Dolores777: MAND..wilton teaches to use a scissors but I turn the nail and use a knife to get them off
MANDMRSJ2: Do you wait for it to dry? Before taking off, I mean?
Dolores777: no MAND, remove immediately after making
Icing Wiz: Country Kitchen sells a flower "taker offer" around $2.25
Icing Wiz: Dolores Do You Sell that tool I am talking about to take flowers off of nail?
Dolores777: Yes, we carry those.
MANDMRSJ2: Icing, is Country Kitchen a store or a line?
Icing Wiz: MANDM It is a catalog
GOOO8: Any comments on roses made on toothpicks?
MANDMRSJ2: GOO, Please, I'm still terrified of the nail and now you want me to use a toothpick? :)
Craftydott: gooo8 mine always slipped. to one side
GOOO8: Proper icing consistency is imperative with the toothpick or it slides down!  LOL
GOOO8: I think once I got it too stiff and another time, too soft.

Icing Wiz: Dolores Have You Made a Video
Dolores777: Icing...the only video I've made is a very long one on making wedding cakes. I'm going to do a wedding cake demo at ices this year. I'm demoing a wedding cake from start to finish.
Bakerbear1: in stages dee?
Dolores777: Yes, in stages…I’ll assemble the cakes, ice them, add decorations and flowers.
Shavkin: Dee, do u know when u r demoing at convention?
Dolores777: Diane...its Thurs. morn, but don't remember the exact time
Shavkin: Oh,.............  I'm demoing on Saturday at 3 Purple room, etc.
Cake Wmn: Diana, what are you demoing?
Shavkin: I'm demonstrating the "Gumpaste & Fondant Embroidery with Popup Flowers" which was on my heart cake that was on the cover of Feb. ICES newsletter and also the technique was on my baby cake that was in April's issue of Am. Cake Dec Magazine.
Honeybells: There's a Cake Decorating magazine?
Dolores777: Honey:::Ices has one and so does http://www.cakemag.com
Minna111: Your newsletter
Dolores777: oh - I have a newsletter...its on my web site
Shavkin: Oh.  Dee did u see my cake in the magazine?
Dolores777: ACD Shav?
Shavkin: PwdSugar will be my guest demonstrator in my web site in April.  Great presentation and wonderful pictures of hers that I layed out.  Great info from Pwd.
Dolores777: ices Shav

Honeybells: Where is the ICES convention?
Minna111: Dee, good to hear that you are active "ICES again" welcome back
Dolores777: Honey:::st paul Minn
Shavkin: Dee, when is your demo at convention?
Honeybells: Any planned for Atlanta area?
Shavkin: ICES convention is in St. Paul
Icing Wiz: ICES convention is in a different city each year
Minna111: Honey, we had one there
Shavkin: Convention was in Atlanta in l989
Dolores777: also, I'm getting ready to post a lot of info on what ICES is on my web site... lots of talk about the convention there on my message board right now
Icing Wiz: We just had one in Orlando at Disney
Shavkin:
Kansas City in 1999
Detroit MI in 2000
Then, 2001 in Portland Oregon
2002 is in Tenessee
And, 2003 is in Canada
Icing Wiz: NYC? I don't think that will be for awhile they already have planned next four years I can't
Shavkin: The Show Directors to be and the present state rep have to make the bid for convention.
Dolores777: you can also go to ICES web site at http://www.ices.org

Icing Wiz: Is anyone here near Kent, Ohio I need another cake
Dolores777: Icing is in FL folks and found someone in Mich. the other day to do her a cake
Icing Wiz: My Mom wants me to find someone for har brothers Birthday LOL
Icing Wiz: Ohio? where in Ohio Sooks5ohio?
Sooks5ohio: Perrysburg, near Toledo
Icing Wiz: Is that near Kent

Dimples498: Did anyone copy the recipes Dolores posted tonight for the icing?
Dolores777: Dimples - I'll repost on my web site...AFTER I get my 5 big wedding cakes done tomorrow!!!!
Ester32152: FIVE wedding cakes in one day????
GOOO8: you're doing 5 all in one day?
Dimples498: 5 big wedding cakes   WOW
Minna111: Dee, I'm bored, if I were nearer, I'd help
Dolores777: Minna...you should see how we need help!!!
Mlwl62: I have hard enough time doing 1 cake a day
Bakerbear1: <---- will move for work :) LOL
Honeybells: I can't imagine one wedding cake.
Cake Wmn: Dee, didn't think you did that many in one day !
Minna111: I hear ya, I used to have 60-80 a week, 10 wedding a weekend
Honeybells: Aren't you afraid of breaking it while transporting it?
Dolores777: I have 2 that have 4 side cakes with fountains
Ester32152: Boy you must be brave !!!
Minna111: i hate fountains
Minna111: such a pain
Dolores777: Cake I've done 14 in one day! Electric turntable is a Godsend
Honeybells: 14!!!!
Icing Wiz: I want an electric turntable!!!!!!!!
LauraJMD: I dream of an electric turntable...
Dolores777: Y don't know how wonderful it is, until you have one!
Ester32152: Fountains are a pain, but soooo pretty
Dolores777: I told on one of our chats how I managed to do 14..its there to read
Dimples498: Dolores do you have turntables on your site?
Dolores777: Helps to not get carpel tunnel too since your body is more well balanced
Dolores777: my turntable goes either way, fast or slow too
Icing Wiz: I saw the way it was used once on TV w/cake icer tip

Bakerbear1: i just want a full-sized oven for now....!!!
GOOO8: I am still uncomfortable about baking on more than one rack
GOOO8: I read you can bake on the lower rack 20 minutes, then move to thetop, but I have a question: If one rack is basically in the "middle", to place the next rack just one rung below presents a problem as the cakes underneath rise. Should I be placing the lower rack closer to the bottom?
Minna111: GOOO i never moved them around, just filled every rack! GOOO stagger the way you arrange them
Dolores777: GOOO not at all...browns on the bottom too much
Bakerbear1: you need to have enough space between racks.....gooo, it is a bit tricky w/smaller ovens
Dolores777: I only bake in the CENTER
Minna111: GOOO i bouthg third rack and used all three no problems
GOOO8: Should I move my middle rack one rung higher then? The cakes start touching the rack above
Minna111: Lower is better, then you can leave those in a few min longer if necessary
Bakerbear1: i have to use both racks if i want more than 1 1/4 sheet or 2 - 9" layers at a time
Kay Mac 51: Especially with large cakes only one in the oven
GOOO8: I'm not saying my cakes rise a whole lot, just the average heights.
Minna111: Dee I now have Kitchen Aid convection and finally love it. It was hard to get used to
Dolores777: weeellll our new fancy oven baked my cakes in 2 hours today :) You all DO rotate those cakes don't you? you don't leave them bake the entire time on the lower rack, right?
Bakerbear1: but i switch them around halfway through baking time.... so that the top will brown
Minna111: Very different than commercial convection
Honeybells: Don't they fall?
Bakerbear1: not if you’re careful honey
Dolores777: i really love my convection oven. Its just like Pwd's
Minna111: I used a Hobart and liked it, but my range is very different than commercial oven

Dolores777: I have a hint for you.... you know how those little PVC figures fall over on cakes?
Dolores777: My daughter thought of melting coating chocolate and placing them in 2-3 wafers.
Dolores777: they stand up great and it is nice...use white chocolate
Minna111: Dee i never used plastic figures, usually made them. Like making a "doll stand?"
Ester32152: Minna you're one in a million
Dolores777: Minna...its legal : )
Dolores777: right, like a doll stand and its very fast
Minna111: yes, i know, but my customers were picky, I spoiled them
Dolores777: we can't make and use copyrighted figures
Minna111: I did a lot of piping after I took Roland’s class. He made me brave. After a while i was very good at it.
Tha503: minna how many years were you in business?
Minna111: Tha 40 yrs
Minna111: Ester, no I don’t want to be 43 again, I worked too hard then

Thursday, March 26, 1998 at 9 PM ET in the Kitchen Conference Room -- Cake Decorating with Dolores777 and Pwd sugar
"Where do you get new Ideas for cakes?"