Thursday February 11, 1999 at 9 PM ET in  the Kitchen  Conference Room - With CCChefDol & CCChefPwd --  "Simple and  complicated cake set ups"


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EARLENE'S PART
   Back thirty five plus years ago when I started doing wedding cakes I also started out using the two plate, plastic support dowels and four Grecian column set up.  As long as those support dowels are all cut the same length and you have enough of them this is a stable unit.  The problem comes when the dowel supports are no longer standing straight up and therefore don't support those upper plates.  Because they are such a small diameter a little shift in a cake above them can cause them to begin leaning a little and then your support is gone.  I know Dolores uses straws in this same manner.  I again don't feel they are large enough in diameter to trust them to support upper tiers.  One place I do use the straws for support is in the cakes such as the Tabasco bottle, basketball and etc.  In those cakes I use threaded rod that is bolted into the wooden base. That threaded rod is enclosed in straws.  Two layers go on the structure and then one hollow 5/8" white dowel (Wilton's) cut the height of those two layers is inserted over the threaded rods.  Straws cut the same length are then used as additional supports in that layer.  Simply because they are small and this cake cannot shift with the way it is constructed.
   Several years ago I had one of those small plastic dowels go through a cardboard.  I was using the plain cardboards between the cakes at that time and that cardboard had gotten soft and one dowel went through the cardboard.  I had used those dowels and the plain cardboards for years and had never had a problem.  But, that one experience made me change my thinking.  Obviously the cardboard had gotten soft and that created the problem with the dowel penetrating through it.

CCChefDol: I worked at the University filling in for the chef once and they had a very ugly old stand
like that
CCChefPwd: It works great for unusual construction cakes
CCChefDol: on the same principal anyway
CCChefDol: had you covered that cardboard with foil Pwd?
CCChefPwd: No - that was before the days of recycling and the cardboard were a lot sturdier
CCChefDol: before foil??? oh-cardboards were heavier then
CCChefPwd: No....  LOL..... Not before Foil.  I don't like using foil between two stacked layers
CCChefDol: I never did see the thicker cardboard
CCChefPwd: We used to be able to get triple wall cardboards and they were really sturdy.
Icing Wiz: Hi Lourdes just saw that you were there
CCChefDol: I can only get those for full sheet cakes now
CCChefPwd: It isn't food safe
CCChefDol: oh-never thought of that. I thought it was for food
CCChefPwd: Wait  - I am thinking of florist foil.  Are you talking about cooking foil?
CCChefDol: yes-cooking foil is what I wrap cardboards in
CCChefDol: Helps keep the straws locked solidly in place too
CCChefPwd: I have never used the regualr cooking foil.
CCChefDol: sort of crease up against the foil
CCChefDol: maybe thats why you don't like straws Pwd

   Now all cardboards going inside a cake are covered with white contact paper.  If the cardboard is going between two layers in a stacked cake the cardboard is covered on both sides with the contact paper.
   Back in 1980 I got out of this business for the second time (the first time was in 1970 when we moved to Lubbock).  In 1980 when I left this business again I left all my equipment except my mixer with the shop.  Therefore I had no pans, separators, and etc. And I had no intention of continuing in this cake decorating business. I managed to stay out of it for two years and then some of the past customers began to find me again.  When I needed to buy new equipment I was aware of all the different set ups and what was the most stable - easiest to set up - separator sets.  I choose to buy only the one set up that Wilton calls the crystal-clear cake divider set.  The whole set number is 301-e-9450

   To this date this is the set up I really prefer to use because of the stability and also because it allows the cake decoration and the flowers to be the focal point.  I prefer the cake stands that allow you to be creative with the cakes and flowers but not call attention to them selves.  I have at least 4 of each of the plate sizes and many of the legs that go with these plates.  The other thing I like about this set up is that if I need shorter or longer legs I can use 5/8" dowel rods covered with Wilton's white hollow dowels instead of the clear legs.  Versatility and stability are what keeps me using this set up
   I also have two sets of the pedestal cake stands.  Simply because the brides occasionally want this look.  I am not totally comfortable using this set up because the cakes simply perch on top of these pedestals.  I am always concerned that someone is going to bump the tables and send that smallest cake that is on the tallest column down in the floor or onto the other cakes.  It is not my first choice to use this set up - it is simply something that the brides want me to use.
   The other stand I use with regularity is the swirl stand that we had custom built for our daughter Karla's wedding.  I have about a dozen sizes and any of those plates can be used as the base for this cake.  You can't buy this stand - it is made from 1/4 inch steel and very very heavy.  It looks wonderful set up but it takes at least an hour to finish placing the cakes on it at the reception site.

   I know there are many other stands available to you such as these from Wilton's

THE GARDEN CAKE STAND  and individual satellite stands
   A nice way to do smaller cakes - the problem is where do you store this stand.  It doesn't break down for easy storage.

THE TALL TIER STAND
   This center column stand makes a beautiful set up but it does take some special steps to assemble, deliver and set up a cake on this stand. Twice when I was using this stand at the shop we had it brought back with those center posts broken.  Our wedding cakes do become very heavy and I just became wary of using this stand.

THE TWO PLATE SEPARATOR SETS come in a variety of plates and legs.  There is the biggest versatilty in columns in these set ups.  But you must make sure that you have good support under that plate that sits on top of your cake.  I have seen several cakes come down that used this type of set up simply because the baker did not use good supports in that cake.

USING THE FOUNTAINS UNDER CAKES can make a special statement.  Just be careful with your plate set up that surrounds the fountain.  The set ups with five or six legs are much more stable than the four legs.  Four legs with a lot of weight above the fountain can be a little scary.
   There are other set ups available from individual vendors.  Such as the clear pedestal stands that we see in all the bridal magazines.  This does make a beautiful set up.  But many of these stands can only be used in one way.  Most of them have a large base acrylic piece that the legs fit into and that is the only way you can use them.
   I think of these stands as a way to show off our sugar techniques.  I wish more decorators would consider the presentation of that cake on the table.  The cake is the focal point in the food area of the reception.  It should be presented so that it is enhanced in that presentation.   A white cake sitting with white flowers, on a white tablecloth all blends together.  Photography is going to be very difficult to see detail of this special memory.  Our job is to build a dream cake for a beautiful brides memories.  If it isn't presented well then the photography which captures that special day won't show your work well.  A little fresh soft greenery and maybe a few flowers at the base of your cakes sets them apart from the tablecloth and makes your sugar work show up better.
   One thing I use under all of my cakes is a puff base.  It lifts that cake about 3 inches off of the table and actually makes the cake look a little larger.  It is presentation and really sets your cakes apart.  If you would like those instructions on how to make that puff base for your use you can e-mail me at pwdsugar@aol.com  this is something I sell instead of giving away.  I just wanted to know the instructions are available if you are interested.

   Then there is that cake set up that my husband always dreads me doing.  Those stacked cakes.  When that bride wants a five tier cake and then she wants all the cakes stacked they can really get heavy.  These cakes must have very sturdy bases.  I prefer 3/4" wooden bases for the stacked cakes cut to the size necessary for your cake design. These cakes must have very good support in all of the tiers.  This is the process I use in stacked cakes.

1. The puff base on the bottom with a wooden circle, beveled Styrofoam and fabric.
2.  A wilton plate 1 inch larger than the base cake if it is to have buttercream icing on it.
3. A heavy cardboard (cut down to 1/2 inch smaller diameter than the cake that will be sitting on it) covered on both sides with contact paper
4.  Two layer cake leveled and filled and stacked.
5. Cut support hollow dowels just slightly shorter than the cake
Repeat steps 3 through 4 as needed to finish assembling your cake order
Remember to use some fresh icing as glue between every plate, cardboard and cake layer and cake tier.  It doesn't take much but the only time I have lost a cake was thank goodness when I was taking a cake to the fair grounds.  I had run out of icing the night before and forgot to put the icing glue between a plate and the cardboard under the cake.  When I went around a corner that cake came right off of that plate and into another cake.  Thank goodness they were just cakes for display at the fair grounds and not for a customers order.  Since then I have been very diligent about making sure every thing is glued down with the fresh icing.


DOLORES' PART - "Simple and  complicated cake set ups"

"SIMPLE" - what do we need to say?
Put your cake on a sturdy board....make sure all layers are flat...insert dowels or straws for sturdy support. ...that is the 'basics'
   Long ago (LOL) I started out by doing only 2-tier cakes and gradually tried larger ones. The first ones were [NOT] for money. They were for my Girl Scout Troop and other friends or family. It takes years and many cakes, to be an experienced decorator. And even then things go wrong....yes-for me still...after 30 plus years at it! Do take classes, attend cake shows, join a cake club, especially attend ICES!
   Make fancy cakes for your family and watch others do them, if possible. Not bragging, but I have written a book that really tells you the basics. You won't need to buy many other books if you have it. But, you will need some kind of training to get good at making cakes that are complicated setups. Start off slow and learn all you can.
   The easiest setup...and the least likely to fall (LOL) are the wedding cakes using the Wilton Crystal Clear cake set (pg 156 of the current yr bk). These plates & pillars are NOT interchangeable with any other style. But they are elegant. Wilton's disposable pillars are very sturdy. You need the regular Grecian plates for these. For both styles,  the pillars insert into the cake. No dowels needed for support. To know where the pillars need to be inserted just ice the bottom cake and press the plate on top - that will hold the cake above. Insert the pillars into the marks.
   Other easy setups are the off-set acrylic tube-style cake stands. Put the tubes and plates in place at the reception and set the individual cakes on them. ...Or Wilton's Garden stand on pg 157....or their floating tier stand. These are super safe!

"FANCY" - Now this is a different story LOL.
   "Fancy" cakes usually come [after] the 'simple' ones, depending on what you call 'fancy.'
   IF you mean a very tall cake with several separations...now that is the dangerously complicated one!
   IF you mean that the cake is average size and it just has very technical decorations... this isn't so bad. Try your skills. Practice makes perfect!
   'Fancy' could mean the Wilton 2-plate system! This is not the best style for the beginner. In your Wilton 99 yearbook they are the 'Classic' or 'Crystal Look' style on pg 160. Using this style, you need to place dowels or straws in all but the top cake. A plate rests on top of the cake, add 4 pillars, then add the plate above. The stability depends on how well you support this cake on the way up. It is NOT a good idea to have over 2-3 separations using this style, regardless of your stage of experience.
   TIP: One tip for insertion of support...straws or dowels: When placing the straws, first insert the straw into the ICED cake, measure just below the icing - to the top of the cake itself. <<<Cake shrinks just a little and you won't want the cakes resting on straws only!>>>may cause things to slide. NEVER have a cake riding on the support dowels. ALSO very important: Place the straws out just about 1inch from the outer edge. If the straws are in to the center too much, the cake can rock and teeter. This is especially important with heart cakes...where the back of the cake is heavier. In the case of heart-shaped cakes, I add more straws in the back where the cake is bigger.
   TIP: When using the 2-plate system you should always insert dowels, then add a circle of plastic wrap on before placing the plate. Also, when stacking with no pillars, you should wrap the cardboard between with foil- back & front. This prevents the cardboard from soaking up the buttercream and getting soggy. It also helps to lock the straws into place so the cakes won't slide.
   RULE 1: Always give the cake a good 'seat.' Put it on a sturdy board. I use Masonite boards covered with white Contact paper. When cakes 'bend' they FALL!
   We are so lucky in the last few years, to have the web. There is always someone close by that you can ask for help from. I wasn't that lucky...way back when. Just wait...right around the corner we'll be uploading movies and LIVE demonstrations soon! Wouldn't that be great?
   Lately I am lucky to have time to even do simple cakes. Earlene can tell you a lot about the 'fancy' - her cakes are breathtaking. I love  her lace wraps and gumpaste flowers. Have you been to her web site lately? Breathtaking!
 
You are going to LOVE this web site! Its in the UK. They sell cake patterns. But the lovely cakes are worth a visit. I hadn't found this site until now. It looks like these designs and cutters are by Suzanne Abbott. Pwd, have you ever heard of her? http://www.qhdesigns.com/




OPEN MIKE TIME:
CCChefDol: a few yrs ago Wilton made some of those pillars a dif. heigth...a real pain - have to stand them up and measure them to use them now
CCChefPwd: Right Dee - some of the older legs are about 1/8 an inch shorter. If you get them mixed up the cake will look like it is leaning
Btcakelady: Great idea, i never thought of using dowels covered with white hollow dowels, thanks
CCChefDol: sure will
CCChefDol: I've used those white rods in corners of my GB houses too...inside of course
CCChefPwd: When you go to the store to buy those dowels take a six inch plate along with you in your purse.  Then try the dowels in the holes on the plate.  Some are made just a hair to big to fit into the holes.  Then you have to sand them down.  It is just easier to take the plate along and try them before buying them
Icing Wiz: PWD...when you use the crystal pillar set, the cake is usually smaller than the white plate.
Icing Wiz: do you cover cake board with foil and is it same size as white plastic plate?
CCChefDol: I use a plate 1" bigger than the cake sitting on it
Icing Wiz: and do you just take all your cakes separately and place them on at reception?
CCChefPwd: It depends on the decorating style. Sometimes the borders will cover the plate.  Other times I use a contact covered cardboard on a smaller plate so that the plate or board won't show
Btcakelady: i cover my plates with freezer paper and tape on bottom of cardboard, this works well
CCChefPwd: I don't like those plates to show if I can cover them. Sometimes you just can't do anything about them showing.
CCChefPwd: I icing glue the plates with the cardboard covered cardboards and then glue the cakes on top of that.  But I try to finish everything I can before delivery
Icing Wiz: I love using the crystal pillar set the most. I always encourage it. I am still trying to figure out how to make it look nicer, I wasn't sure whether just to use same size board or where board would show. I like the contact paper idea- thanks
Btcakelady: icing glue - is that pwd sugar and water mixed to look like Elmer's glue
CCChefPwd: Just buttercream icing.  LOL
CCChefPwd: Just needs to be fresh so that everything will adhere together

CAKE STANDS:
Swtelegnt: I store mine in my office as a end table
CCChefPwd: Have any of the rest of you had this stand brought back broken?
Swtelegnt: yes, I did and I haven't used it since
CCChefDol: yes...mine has been broken - I hate it anyway
CCChefPwd: That stand is a real pain to deliver besides being a little scary when you set it up.
We had to actually get up on top of the table to assemble that cake at one reception
CCChefDol: I put the cakes in pans with a towel draped on the pan under the cake...rug backing would be. It is just a pain.
Btcakelady: has anyone used the 13 inch arched pillars, i thought they were very unstable
Swtelegnt: when I use my Arched pillar set I use just a tiny bit of poster stickum on the tops and bottom of each piller
Btcakelady: great idea Swtelegnt, 'preciate the tip
CCChefDol: There is a new one-each piece is individual. Picture on my web site- in wedding page.  This new set is $46.00 total. It is NOT all acrylic, nor does it compare to a $300.00 stand either. But it is good if you aren't going to use it a lot.
Icing Wiz: I love all those beautiful lucite type stands but don't trust people and they are so much $
JWGPKG: That sounds reasonable.  Who makes it?
CCChefDol: It is called "Cake Deco." The tubes are flexible but they hold the cake okay

EARLENE'S 'PUFF' BASE:
CCChefDol: You can see Pwd's puff base on her cakes at her web site. You carry the pattern if we want it don't you Pwd?
Thinkchoc: I love the look of that puff base you use Pwd
Icing Wiz: I know I love the puff base. i keep forgetting to send the $ for instructions
CCChefDol: ..or what about an ivory/iced cake on white cloth!
Swtelegnt: I always show brides pictures of cakes with and without presentation, gets my point across without a lot of convincing
Icing Wiz: is that puff base hard to do Pwd?
CCChefDol: They could buy a piece of lacy fabric is nothing else
CCChefPwd: Dee the greenry helps break that so it doesn't look bad
CCChefPwd: Not hard - just a little complicated
Dose57104: I ordered the puff base instructions, it turned out to be easier to make than I thought!
CCChefPwd: And the greery is pretty inexpensive
GOOO8: Is this the one that has the gathered fabric look?
CCChefPwd: Right GOOO
GOOO8: Yes, then, that is an absolutely gorgeous base
CCChefPwd: The fabric gathered is pretty heavy and would let the cake sink in the middle.  You need a support plate covering the edge of that gathered fabric to make a flat surface
SugarSpec: pwd  have  you ever used  foam core  for  plates?
Icing Wiz: what is foam core?
CCChefDol: It looks like 3 cardboards fastened together and covered with pretty foil
CCChefPwd: foam core is similar to cardboard and you can buy it at the art supply places
SugarSpec:  foam core  you can  find  at  mj  or  any  craft  store  at  the frame  shop
CCChefDol: I know that we carry it.
CCChefPwd: It is about the same thickness as most of the cardboard circles and looks cleaner
Dose57104: Do you have to cover foam core with anything before using it?
SugarSpec:  i dont   i love it
Thinkchoc: it's a thin piece of styrofoam sandwiched between two pieces of thin white cardboard
Btcakelady: Pwd - some of you boards are covered with interesting "paper" with designs - where do you  find this paper and is it FDA approved?
CCChefPwd: Some of us use florist foil on the boards.  But then I put the contact paper covered cardboard between that paper and the cake
Thinkchoc: Foamcore can be cut to any shape with an exacto knife, and doesn't have to be covered
CCChefPwd: The Florist foil is not food safe FDA approved
Icing Wiz: Fanci foil from Wilton is FDA app. and I think the stuff CK sells is too
Dose57104: I wish they made FDA foil in more colors !
Swtelegnt: thinkchoc, do you wrap the edge to cover the foam part?
Btcakelady: I have used wrapping paper and then covered it well with cleal plastic wrap stretched tight
CCChefDol: FDA foil is no better! The colors still come off in the icing
Icing Wiz: CK's has lots of colors. But I still tend to use gold the most
Icing Wiz: I have never had that problem Dol
Thinkchoc: no, haven't had a problem, I read Colette Peters uses this method for all her cakes
CakesBySue: CK'S FOIL IS FLORIST FOIL.

Chef Nana1: Wilton has 2 fountains. Which one is the best?
CCChefDol: fountain...always get the best one. It is going to last you for years - the good one will an
I had one that lasted for 15 years
Dose57104: I have a Wilton Color Flow Fountain, and I'm glad I spent the extra $ on it, it's great!
CCChefDol: OTHER FOUNTAINS ARE JUST CHEAPY

Cakecherub: If you were going to buy a new ACRYLIC  stand, what brand would you get?
CCChefDol: Cake...look a the I DO stand. I hear it is really good
Thinkchoc: Dol, how is that "I DO" stand you have pictured? I hear it's pretty popular

Cakecherub: Anyone had any experience with the HIS brand acrylic cake stand?
CCChefDol: Someone said here that it holds up well. I do not personally know
CCChefDol: The acrylic stands are all so similar - and expensive too!

ICES:
Dose57104: You guys are so great! I hope to meet you in KS
MHohimer: There are 21 people here now - I would like to see all 21 at Convention.
MHohimer: Dose are you talking about convention?
Icing Wiz: I am going Millie just still broke but I have faith that I will have money soon
CCChefPwd: We will see you there Dose
MHohimer: It is in MO instead of KS
CCChefDol: MH...do you have news for us?
CCChefDol: we need to get our registrations in - I do know that
Dose57104: I really did mean KC  LOL
CCChefPwd: On the Line Millie  LOL
CarolA5238: Even though it cost a little I always put a doily under my cakes.
MHohimer: Yes, Pwd, close to the line
CCChefPwd: You just need something food safe between the cake and the foil Carol

Thinkfour: How is the Wilton 3 Floating Tiers Stand?
CCChefDol: Think...that one is sturdy and easy to use. But is easily nicked so handle it with care
CCChefPwd: I haven't had any of it.   Don't really know
CCChefDol: mine to Dose...it would need to be VERY good and sell lots of cakes
CCChefPwd: Very good for that price
CCChefPwd: But several of those acrylic stands are pretty pricey
CCChefDol: But the good ones just cost THAT much...can't be helped. Bakery Craft told me they cost a lot to make
Thinkchoc: seems those Lucite stands make setup a lot easier

Dose57104: Anyone know where I can get a scalloped oval pan set?
CCChefDol: Dose, I just don't know if it is standard or, if it is, we do carry that
Dose57104: The only one I have seen is from Creative Cutters and is $198.00 a set
CCChefDol: I think that may be from England or somewhere else

Dose57104: I thinkRosemary Watson used that shape for one of her cakes on her website, it's probably
Btcakelady: what is Rosemary's web site address
Dose57104: I wish I could get my gumpaste flowers and ribbons to look as real as she does
CCChefDol: yes they sure are easy
CCChefPwd: It is a neat web site
CCChefDol: Dose - there are just little tricks. Have you seen her video?
CCChefPwd: She has problems with her hands and that is why she developed some easy ways of making the lace and the flowers
Dose57104: I have a few of her double sided pressed and they are a breeze, i get lost of compliments
on the cakes I do with them
CCChefPwd: She says she doesn't do many cakes anymore.  She doesn't have the time now with the business  selling the lace and flowers presses
CarolA5238: How do we find Rosemary's webb site?
CCChefPwd: sugarbouquets.com I think
(I have a link to her page from mine too), Dolores



Thursday February 18, 1999 at 9 PM ET in  the Kitchen  Conference Room - With CCChefDol & CCChefPwd --
"They asked  for another yearbook pricing chat"