Thursday May 6, 1999 at 9 PM ET in  the Kitchen  Conference Room -- With CCChefDol & CCChefPwd  --
"You want to make a wedding cake? Okay, we know a few tricks"

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EARLENE'S PART
I AM GOING BACK TO MY PwdSugar name.  I don't like people coming in and thinking I am a chef.  Liz said we could do that if we want to.  One little concession.  I think Liz does need to let us know as soon as possible when this change will take place so we can let our people know.
 

Tuesday or Wednesday, crumb coat the cakes the next day, let them sit overnight to do any settling they might want to do.  Trim any icing pooches off and ice and finish them the next day.  The next day is delivery and set up.  If you are new to this allow plenty of time to deliver that cake.  Take your time and easy on the bumps and drive around corners really easy.

Use a cake recipe you are comfortable with.  Don’t use a new recipe that you have never used.  You don’t know how high it will rise,  what the consistency will be,  will it be moist or dry, will it hold up for several days of work.  Will it be a product you want to have your name attached to.   Your reputation will be built on what that cake looks like - but, also on what it tastes like.   I always feel that the inside of that cake is as important if not more important than the way it looks.  If it doesn’t taste good that customer has wasted her money.

There is lots of wonderful equipment out there for cake decorators now.  I should know - I have a small fortune tied up in my equipment.  Buy only as you need equipment.   Storage gets to be a real big problem.  Pans can be nested - that is the basic shapes.  But those shaped character pans won’t nest with anything and take up a huge amount of space.  Learn to do techniques that will not require you to purchase many of those pans.

Check out the garage sales - cake decorators getting out of the business offer you some real bargains in equipment.

If you have a friend who is also a cake decorator - compare the equipment you have.   Mark you equipment so you know without a doubt it is yours and then you can share what you have and  not be out quite so much on expense.   I have a couple of friends in town  who loves the lace things also.  We were talking the other day - we should take rosemary’s catalog and mark what each of us have so that we can have more equipment available to each of us.  But beware only do this with people you truly trust.  There are some here in town that would borrow what I have and I would never see it again.   I am very careful what equipment is loaned and to whom I lend equipment.

We as cake decorators sometimes are our worst enemies.  We know where all the faults are and wish it had been better.  Don’t tell you customers where those mistakes are.  Do you best and leave knowing you have done your best for where you are right now in your decorating abilities.   As long as you have done your best - you will have nothing to apologize for.  None of us are perfect.  None of us.   We all make mistakes but betty may used to tell us.  "it is only sugar"



DOLORES' PART "You want to make a wedding cake? Okay, we know a few tricks"

It 'TAKES' a few tricks to make a wedding cake! And a little bit of practice on family first. This is why I practiced on my Girl Scout troop and friends before I sold any wedding cakes. I couldn't have stood the pressure of taking money until I was more sure of myself. Especially since the books you now enjoy were not available back then. There was NOT one book available at all. Wilton had a catalog/Yearbook but no helpful hints like now. My first book didn't even include an icing recipe. My first Wilton Yr Bk had a pink cover, cake on the left and step-by-step directions on the right. It told what tip and the pictures were good. But there was no one to ask ---  at all.
 
You are so lucky now. You can take a class or find written directions all over the place...or even ask on my message board if you get stuck! Then I DID write a wedding cake workbook that really tells you everything step-by-step. It will lead you through baking problems, taking an order and all kinds of pricing information. I'm not bragging but I really do think this book is the best. It bothers me that when books did become available, I had to buy more than one just to have all the info. This one has everything. It even contains a lot of the special hints Earlene and I both gave in chats when we first started doing them.

The Wilton encyclopedias may have been the best books available. But they are going out of print now. We've already gotten notice from Wilton, that we can no longer get Enc. 2 or 3.

As for 'hints' become familiar with the basics:
   * Will that cake fit in your oven? Or fit out the door LOL?
   * Don't over-bake the cake, making it tough and tasteless. Bake at more like 325 than 350 degrees called for. Your cake won't get so brown. Use baking strips if you still have problems. If your cake has a sharp high hump, the oven is too hot. I press the air out to make the cake flat as soon as I remove it from the oven. Just lay a towel on and press gently.
   * Assemble all items needed several weeks before the cake is due. If you aren't familiar with how-to, set up an imaginary cake using your pans, plates and pillars.
   * And --- get paid! When someone calls you for an order, you shouldn't consider it a fact until they have given you - MONEY - a down payment. I require $100.00 down. Some people do the down payment on a percentage basis.
   * If the cake is canceled, I will return all but $50.00 unless I find out for sure the wedding was canceled for good reason. (IF the cakes aren't made already!) Too many brides just go around hassling people nowadays. I don't see why they don't get their wedding cake where they get birthday cakes....well, except for Earlene who makes REAL special ones. : )
    * Make sure they return your materials. I make a list and put it face-up under the cake upon delivery. I make them wash off the plastics too. They won't be clean but they won't string icing around either. I require that my plastics be returned the Monday after the wedding too. This way they won't be thrown into the trunk of a hot car and have them mildewed and warped.
   * ALWAYS charge a deposit for plastics return according to their value. Then if anything is lost or damaged, you can deduct that amount. Most of the time its fine but when people are bad, they are [very] bad. Once a bride had my fountain all closed in a box. But we always put water in it and check it. So, when Sue lifted it out, it just fell [all] apart! Broken all to pieces. She said it was that way when we rented it to her! @#$%^&. She had to forfeit her deposit and I had to replace my fountain. I [rent] fountains. That is, I charge a deposit and also a rental fee that they don't get back. I charge $20.00 rental.

In this months American Cake Decorating magazine (http://www.cakemag.com) they have a pricing article. This helps show what a wide range of prices there really are. We start out charging about $1.00 per serving for VERY simple wedding cakes (my daughter does).  I don't do any that are less than $2.00 to start with. That is very expensive in my area and I don't do cakes every weekend...I like it this way. I base my charges on the expenses of doing the cake and the time it takes too. Look at it this way...people that don't have the money or want anything fancy shouldn't pay as much.
   I made a label on each cake. I list the amount of servings it can be done in...maybe 2-3 dif. Sizes. And the price. This is all. I keep a cheat sheet with the name of the cake and the cake sizes. They don't need to see the sizes of the cakes. I had a bride once who took 2 hours of my time planning a fancy cake with no intentions of getting it from me. Granted, most people aren't like that, but you won't want it to happen to you either.
   I charge the very same for dummy cakes...in case they ant a big cake but not so many servings. Dummy cakes cost as much as real ones and take just as much time to decorate.

   One other thing I found that really helps me is that I list a 'range' of servings like this: Serves 125-140.
This way they can decide if they like extra cake. This helps them a lot in deciding the cake they want. They are more flexible in their choices since I do this way.



OPEN MIKE:

WEDDING CAKES
CCChefDol:  sometimes we charge and let the customer keep the plastics
CCChefDol:  WHITE DOWELS: I use those white dowels for everything...even makes a good
rolling pin for gumpaste <g>

RClark8352:  When you have a stacked cake to do, do you put it together
before or after? How do you
Pwd Sugar:  I put it together at home and then recruit help in delivering it. I can't pick it up by myself.
CCChefDol:  RC...if you are going only a short ways, you may be able to stack 3-4 tiers... IF you understand how real well
CCChefDol:  Me too Pwd...and I drive real slow
Pwd Sugar:  I had on 5 tier package cake that was extremely heavy and it took four of us to deliver that cake.  One to hold doors and three to carry it.
CCChefDol:  ..and you just about have to finish that at home too, right Pwd?
RClark8352:  Do you deliver in a car or van to transport it?
CCChefDol:  I have a caravan...Pwd a van
RClark8352:  Where can those boards be purchased?
CCChefDol:  RC...we sell the - masonite boards
CAROLF7:  my husband cuts mine for me
CCChefDol:  I know someone who didn't have it on a cardboard, the plate broke right in half...we rigged it up
Pwd Sugar:  My husband cuts the wooden board and I have ordered the Masonite ones from CK
CCChefDol:  My husband use to but I needed to carry them in the shop and it was too much for him
CCChefDol:  Pwd sells instruction to make the pretty skirting you see on her cakes on her web site
CCChefDol:  You need the board to be 4 inches bigger around than the cake
RClark8352:  Pwd, what is your web address?
Pwd Sugar:  http://hometown.aol.com/pwdsugar/index.html

RClark8352:  Pwd, I take it that crumb coating is the best way to go when icing a cake?
CCChefDol:  RC...we all do it different. I crumb coat then go right on icing
it the day I decorate it. I crumb coat...press hard to seal in crumbs, then go right back and finish icing
Pwd Sugar:  crumb coating just helps keep any crumbs out of that outside icing.  Makes Icing it much faster the next day
RClark8352:  Sounds good to me.
Pwd Sugar:  I have so many brides who want super smooth almost no decorations on their cakes. So I don't want any settling lines or bulges. Super smooth buttercream with bulges is not pretty.
CCChefDol:  I never have seams or bulges at all. The sides are perfect this way. Bulges WILL occur if you try to dec. the cake too soon. I bake on Thurs, ice & dec. on Fri and deliver it on Sat...like
CARJAR4:  What do you use to crumb coat?
L2jlu2:  crumb coating is a thin layer of buttercream spread on your cakes

RClark8352:  When you bake the cakes ahead of time, where should you store them?
Pwd Sugar:  I store them on racks at about 70 degrees in my workroom.  But that rack also has a
heavy plastic cover on it.
CCChefDol:  I have a rack with a zip cover on it and they are sealed pretty tight. When I didn't have a rack, I threw a shower curtain over them
Pwd Sugar:  After you have then crumb coated then just leave them in a cool room

RClark8352:  I've only done a few wedding cakes.  I used my best pound cake recipe, but the outside of the cake was brown and slightly hard. What should I do?
CCChefDol:  RC...maybe your oven was just too hot...do you bake at 325?
Pwd Sugar:  Sounds like it was over-baked RClark
CARJAR4:  Do you always bake at 325?
RClark8352:  At that time I was baking at 350, the inside was fine but the outside was blah
CCChefDol:  RC: when you think it is done, press your finger lightly in the center and if it springs back up, it is done
Pwd Sugar:  Turning your oven temp down should help

CCChefDol:  books are really how I learned. Back in 1965 there were no classes anywhere near where I live. Wilton was 5-6 hours away and my children were small.
L2jlu2:  Brag, Dol, i have your book and i think its great!!
CCChefDol:  glad to hear that L2
L2jlu2:  Wilton Encyclopedias:  i bought all 3 used books, but they were in great shape
CCChefDol:  Hold on to them L2...this is why I'm telling you all...so you can get them while they are still available. Our Volume 2 is all gone.

RClark8352:  Dol, do you suggest shaving the sides of a cake (Pound cake)?
Thinkchoc:  I love that method, but family misses those cake scraps!!
CCChefDol:  I never shave any sides of my cakes...but I grease both sides & bottom of my pans
won't miss the scraps after a while LOL
RClark8352:  Dol, how do you get a buttery taste in pound cake.  I've been using a little more butter
than my recipe requires, but still don't get that extra buttery taste. Does butter flavoring give cakes that taste?
CCChefDol:  RC...I'd try that...sounds good. Wen I do butter cake I use Duncan Hines butter cake. I  love that
RClark8352:  What do you use to grease the pans?
CCChefDol:  I use Karp's pan spray. This kind contains flour and cakes never stick.
ChefLee:  cakes are a GREAT way to boost my catering income
RClark8352:  I've been using bakers joy
CCChefDol:  Pwd...gives her scraps to catering friends and they make cookies with them
ReneeLSchl:  i tried that baker's joy for the first time this week and was pleased! didn't yellow the pan
ChefLee:  I use crisco, and dust with flour, the cakes NEVER stick!
CCChefDol:  whatever works RC
CCChefDol:  I use to Chef...but had to make time and this is MUCH faster. It does cost more, but I raised my prices a little...don't have crumbs either
ChefLee:  I'll have to try that sometime

PAYMENT:
ChefLee:  payment.....25% when booked.......25% 14 days in advance, remaining 50% the day of the
function
CCChefDol:  If mine isn't paid for I don't deliver it....they dodged me and that stopped that

Chrismrisa:  is there a rule on matching the cake with the frosting and the filling?
CCChefDol:  probably Chris...I like cream cheese with carrot cake...light whipped frosting with angel food etc

ChefLee:  does anyone like whipped cream on cakes?
CCChefDol:  by all means Chef
ChefLee:  I would much rather have buttercream. This is about all I saw when I was in chef school in NY
CCChefDol:  I don't do pound cake really. I usually do carrot cake when it needs to be firm cake
but icing depends on the cake and there are many types. all are worth trying

ChefLee:  I must admit that I get better comments from my catering clients when I use box cake mixes that I do when I make genoise sponge from scratch
CCChefDol:  ...so why knock yourself out, why not use box-mix...it is really good now, right Chef?
Cake Wmn:  Chef, speaking as one who almost flunked butter cakes in school - mixes are my only hope! LO
Dunkccc:  Speaking of box mix--do you still like Duncan Hines since it was sold?
CCChefDol:  yes...what about this everyone...do you notice the mix has changed?
CCChefDol:  I have had several people tell me they do and I think it is very dry now. I DO think they changed the formula for the cake mix
Dunkccc:  What other mix would you recommend?
CARJAR4:  What other cake mixes do you guys like besides DH?
CarolA5238:  I just doctor it up, I noticed it looked a little different (dry).
CAROLF7:  Betty Crocker super moist
RClark8352:  Betty Crocker & Pillsbury have worked great for me
ReneeLSchl:  I use whatever is on sale
CCChefDol:  I just always liked the flavor of DH, but if they are going to chintz, then things will chan
ChefLee:  AMEN, renee
RClark8352:  BC makes a great Golden Vanilla
CCChefDol:  I use what I believe in...DH
RClark8352:  Renee, I do that too!
CarolA5238:  Sometimes I mix Duncan and betty together and get a great cake.
Dunkccc:  Oooh, I had some of the gold. van. w/ raspberry filling--yummy!
ReneeLSchl:  I  should do a taste test, I honestly can't tell the difference between them all, all good
Dunkccc:  Sandy made it for the Weekend of Sharing
CCChefDol:  I always liked yellow cake, so I did notice its dryer now
CCChefDol:  I just use the box mix for that...seldom do it
Cake Wmn:  Dol, do many of your brides want yellow?
CCChefDol:  not many at all - I wish...no egg separating

RClark8352:  Dol, I've seen that list, I can't believe that some charge $10 bucks a slice
CCChefDol:  Pwd sometimes charges $15.00 per slice
CARJAR4:  Isnt that a bit high.?
CCChefDol:  CAR...not if you can get it LOL...and they buy Earlene’s expertise
CARJAR4:  Understood.
Pedaldancr:  If I've doing delicate fondant or gumpaste work, you better believe I'm going to charge $10
ChefLee:  where...........I've never seen them that high.....even in NYC, which I thought was the most
expensive place on Earth!!!
CCChefDol:  right Chef, but she lives almost in the dessert and she CAN get it...goes to show we can too if we try the way she did...need plenty of experience and classes for all that. but SHE believes it IS and this is the entire point ...yeah...just took a class for $450.00...when you think, its worth it
Pedaldancr:  Absolutely.  She has everyone here in Atlanta convinced
Thinkchoc:  Sylvia Weinstock's cakes start at $10 a slice
ChefLee:  I guess I understand about the gumpaste work, and I agree with that
Pedaldancr:  And Sylvia's work in not worth it! Sylvia's in NYC does all the celebrities cakes
CCChefDol:  Sylvia marketed herself. This takes an extreme amount of push and energy
Cake Wmn:  Don't you charge for planning appt., Dol?
CCChefDol:  Cake...no but they order...I screen them plenty before I will even see them

Dunkccc:  What time Dee?  You're a 40-minute wedding cake marvel!
CCChefDol:  time Dunk?
Dunkccc:  You know it doesn't take you any time at all to do a wedding cake. LOL

CarolA5238:  Dee, did you ever deliver a wedding in a truck and on a bumpy road(what fun)! That was no fun
ChefLee:  or a cake with buttercream in a southern climate with no a/c
Icing Wiz:  I had to deliver a cake to a place with no address and the road was heavy dirt
Dunkccc:  I bet it was a gritty cake after that.  LOL
JSTJZN:  and we all had to serve it.
Icing Wiz:  I do buttercream in 90degree weather all the time
CCChefDol:  i won't LET my husband drive with a cake to deliver

ChefLee:  chef, what do you think about using fresh flowers on a cake?
CCChefDol:  I think real flowers belong in vases and icing belongs on cakes...I don't eat cake with poison on it AT ALL
ChefLee:  again........while working in NYC, I saw tons of cakes with fresh cut flowers

RClark8352:  Dol, do you carry dummy cake icing
CCChefDol:  yes RC
CCChefDol:  But for real cakes with dummies, you must use the same icing
Dunkccc:  What’s Perma Ice?
CCChefDol:  yes...permaice is all that there is that can be washed
Dunkccc:  Is it hard to use?
Nadgabjoe:  How much permaice should you use to ice a 8 and 12 inch dummy
CCChefDol:  Nad...I don't have any idea...it goes farther than real icing...you can ice it thinner coating
RClark8352:  Dol, can you do the decorations with the permaice?
CCChefDol:  RC...yes. But there is a way to thicken it and I forget how
Nadgabjoe:  Should I buy a gallon or a quart
JSTJZN:  gallons .
CCChefDol:  cake sizes Nad?
Nadgabjoe:  8 and 12
CCChefDol:  quart I would think Nad.
Dunkccc:  Can't decide if I want to do a cake for National convention.  Maybe do royal?
CCChefDol:  Dunk - you MUST!
Dunkccc:  Already sent my registration--can't wait!
JSTJZN:  oh man from where i see it it is only may 6, 1999
CCChefDol:  After June 1, registration will be more expensive...we must do this NOW
CAROLF7:    mine is already in, tickets ordered, hotel reserv. Made
Tch2morrow:  Buy spackling at building supply shops.  Much cheaper.  Just make sure it is white. The spackling is for the dummy cakes.  Some has a grayish tint.
CCChefDol:  Tch...you can't wash it with that on it. In one of our chats someone told us the right kind. But I want to be able to scrub it when it is dirty….and keep it too.
Tch2morrow:  I have and sanded it also after removing some decorations and wanted to use it again.
JSTJZN:  i would refuse to use it - but i would like to see it sanded down again.
CCChefDol:  JST...can't you cover it first? I always shrink wrap my dummies then dump them when I want
Icing Wiz:  Dol explain how to shrink wrap to Nadia
CCChefDol:  I have a shrink wrapper machine...it heats it and wraps it around
Icing Wiz:  I heard you can use contact paper
Icing Wiz:  I just use perma-ice
CCChefDol:  They say you can do that with a hair dryer...OR just tape it down
tight with that silver duct tape that is so sticky...I've done that too
CCChefDol:  AND...Pwd does dif. still...she covers hers with freezer paper, cut to fit top, then around

RClark8352:  ACD has some nice ideas this month for graduations
CCChefDol:  got a big graduation in our family too.
Icing Wiz:  my daughter graduated last year
CCChefDol:  I'm going to do 'look out world, here I come' - I'd always cover a cake dummy some way
CarolA5238:  I use wrapping paper and the contac paper. The floral paper and cover it with contac paper.
CCChefDol:  oh I see Carol, thanks
CCChefDol:  I liked the contac paper idea too
CarolA5238:  I also use birthday paper what ever the deal the cakes for the put Contac© paper over it,
ReneeLSchl:  why do you put the wrapping paper under the contact?
CarolA5238:  It makes the cake all the more special, the contac paper is clear
CCChefDol:  I can't wait to see Pwd's computer shaped cake she is working on tonight
Icing Wiz:  is it for convention? the computer cake?
CCChefDol:  no - for an order she has
Icing Wiz:  are you all going to ice cream social on Thursday night?
Thinkchoc:  Sheila, are you going to convention ?


Thursday May 13, 1999 at 9 PM ET in  the Kitchen  Conference Room -- With CCChefDol & CCChefPwd  --  "Graduation cake ideas, lets create"