Date: November 10th, 1998 04:21:37
From: Millie
e-mail: millied@elfatrading.com
Subject: Re: Copyright cops
Wow, Julie that's great that you knew what to do.

What city are you in? Do have a store or do you work at home? Do you
know how they got your number? Don't mean to pry but I'm curious as to
how far they will go to find people out.

Millie

Date: November 10th, 1998 01:34:11
From: Jackie N.
e-mail: nelson@redrose.net
Subject: Re: How Much?
Here in PA the going price would range from $15-25.00 for a stand-up
Panda.

hope this helps.
Jackie

Date: November 10th, 1998 01:42:41
From: Jackie N.
e-mail: nelson@redrose.net
Subject: Re: cake for 125 people
If you are doing the trucks out of cake as well...honey, $200 isn't
enough!!

...unfortunately, most customers won't pay us what they're really
worth!

Date: November 10th, 1998 01:16:55
From: Julie Campbell
e-mail: thecampbells@sprintmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright cops
I had someone call and ask me to do a disney character cake. I
explained I could not and, as Lynne said, they did rant and rave.
Thanks to all of you I knew better; also, my caller id told me the name
of the law firm!!!!

Date: November 12th, 1998 03:25:01
From: Terri
e-mail:
Subject: Pricing for mints
Hi Everyone!

I was wondering how much the rest of you charge for white choc. mints?
Do you charge by the pound or by the number of mints?

I think I may be charging the wrong price. I live in AL.

Thanks

Terri

Date: November 12th, 1998 02:26:13
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Serving size of round cakes
hi ann; welcome to our sweet world :)
this has been discussed often over the past month or so. please take
some time to read each catagory by scrolling all the way down &/or read
the archives.
the wilton charts are a good start. they are based on a 2"x2"x2" peice
for 'party' cakes.
the wilton wedding chart is off a bit.
what you can do is make a paper pattern of each size and mark it off so
you know for yourself the # of servings. that way you can make the
servings any size you want. the bigger you make them the less you will
earn for a cake -- those you charge by the piece for :)

Date: November 12th, 1998 02:14:20
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Copyright cops

***********************no!***********************

no amount of money can change hands at all if it is anything
copyrighted reproduced in any way, shape or form :)

Date: November 12th, 1998 12:46:20
From: ann
e-mail: ann-mosher@uiowa.edu
Subject: Serving size of round cakes
Hi. I've just started selling my cakes and am working on price lists
including serving amounts. Could anyone tell me the amount of servings
they quote for a 6", 8", 10" 12" and 14" round 2" cake? Do you quote
the same price and serving amount for a 2 layer (1"inch each) cake as
for a l layer (2 inches high) cake?

I have looked in the Wilton catalog and written down serving amounts,
but feel that some of those are not quite accurate. It seems you could
get more out of a cake than that? Thanks!

Date: November 12th, 1998 12:43:29
From: Ann
e-mail:
Subject: tips for the Barney cake
I made a Barney recently for a friend's daughter (didn't sell it--just a
gift). I just thought I'd warn you about the Barney "color' because I
was frustrated with it. I had bought the Wilton color named "Barney"
and it was very pink. I kept adding more and adding more and it just
wouldn't turn purple. Finally I added some blue and it was great. Just
a tip--you would think the "barney" color would be accurate, but it
wasn't for me! I also made a separate little cake shaped like a kite
(apparently Barney sometimes has a kite) and attached it to his hand
with a string of icing. I wrote the Happy Birthday message on the kite.

Date: November 13th, 1998 12:15:27
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Serving size of round cakes
Hi, Like Lynne said, this was discussed further down this same board.
Just scroll about half way down and you'll find a lot of ideas and
thoughts on this subject.

Good luck!

Date: November 13th, 1998 12:43:29
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: Copyright solution???
My husband and I have been kicking this one around for a while and I
just know I'm going to regret bringing this up. Please understand up
front, I'm not trying to "get around" the copyright laws (o.k., maybe
just a little) I'm trying to work WITH them.

First of all, the whole purpose of copyright laws is so that the
creators of a product or idea gets their just "dues" on any item they
sell.

Secondly, it is not illegal to copy or use copyrighted materials for
the purpose of teaching. (I looked this up on some legal library sites)

So, how about this:

For $30.00 (or whatever price you set) you can purchase a Winnie the
Pooh pan (for example), take a mini cake decorating course (15 minutes
to learn the star method), and take home a completed cake.

As I understand it there would be no copyright infringement because a
pan was purchased, a mini project course was taught, and the cake was a
teaching tool.

A few problems with this would be:
1) The customer doesn't want the pan. Then tell them to buy those
plastic things to go on top of the cake and still end up paying $20-$30
total for the cake and the accessories.

2) The customer doesn't want to take the mini course. Give your
customers their options and let them decide.

3) Too much hassle to order the pans (particularly if you can't get
them wholesale) and go to all the trouble. Then don't.

Again, let me reiterate that I truly believe that the people who hold
the copyrights on any of the character pans should be compensated.
Doing it this way would do that. A pan would have to be bought for
every cake you did. Plus even if you're the one decorating the cake,
you still have to buy the supplies to decorate it (the special colors).

Sorry for taking up so much space! I'd like to hear any thoughts on the
subject. Like I said, my husband and I were just kicking around some
ideas and this is something we thought about.

Date: November 12th, 1998 11:28:38
From: Shay
e-mail: Gracesyn1@aol.com,
Subject: Re: Copyright cops
What I want to know is can you make a cake that has a copyright on it and give it to the people and just charge for your work and time, not the cake? Shay

Date: November 13th, 1998 03:19:47
From: Tina
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Carolyn,
I do decorated cut-out cookies every year. I just do the outlining and
don't fill them in with icing. My customers seem to like it that way
as they are not "too sweet". Last year I charged $3.00 per dozen for
them but I'm upping the price to $4.00. They are really just too time-
consuming even with just the outlining!

I guess it really depends on where you live as to how much you can
charge for them. In my area, people just don't want to pay high prices
for baked goods.

Good Luck,
~Tina~

Date: November 13th, 1998 01:19:01
From: Lena
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Hi, Carolyn,
Determine the cost per cookie by adding all the costs of the recipe you
are using and divide that cost by the number of cookies you get from
the recipe. Do the same to how much icing you use per cookie. Add the
totals per cookie of the recipes to get the actual cost. Then determine
the profit you want to add to the cost of one cookie or by the dozen.
Include in the cost, also, if you are using a box or a bag to put the
cookies in for the customer. Also, check the pricing in your area that
do cookies as you described. I am not good with words, so I hope what I
have said was easy to understand. I hope this information helps you.
Good luck! Lena

Date: November 13th, 1998 12:28:03
From: Jennifer
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Copyright cops/Millie
I was curious to know this, too. I would call them back and threaten them with harassment charges if they call you again!

Date: November 13th, 1998 12:21:57
From: Renee S.
e-mail: reneelschl@aol.com
Subject: Re: Copyright solution???
very creative! I personally don't think there are supposed to be any
"ways" around that law. To me it's pretty black and white, and I don't
prefer to take chances. Honestly though I have done it occasionally
for people I know very well, but wouldn't do it for just anyone who
calls me. From now on, I'm letting every customer know that is is
illegal and presenting other options. There are so many other cute
cakes that don't infringe upon this law. But you have to do what you
are comfortable with.

Date: November 13th, 1998 11:18:28
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Pricing for mints
Are you talking about decorating the white chocolate disks or are you talking about melting them and molding them? I'd charge at least 10 cents each and maybe more for the molded ones. I've heard of people charging $30 per hundred, but I would find that hard to get here, I think. I usually do the cream cheese mints, roll them out like pie dough, and use tiny cutters like hearts for weddings and I charge 6 cents each for those, but I do not decorate them at all. I find if they are decorated, they do not eat them as well. I do make them in the bridal colors. I recommend 2 mints per person when I do weddings. Some people won't take any, but some would take 3 or 4 so usually averages out.

Date: November 13th, 1998 11:14:44
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
I just had a call to see if I would do decorated cookies for Christmas - the cut out kind. Years ago, I did them by the 100 dozens! But then, no one wanted to pay what it was worth so I quit doing them as they are very time consuming. This girl is a very good customer so I told her I would "think" about it. I don't just outline the cookies - they are completely done in buttercream - outlined, filled in, etc. - very decorated and very pretty! I just wondered what was the going rate if any one is doing them.

Date: November 13th, 1998 10:07:22
From: Julie Campbell
e-mail: thecampbells@sprintmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright cops/Millie
Millie,
I live about 50 miles outside of Atlanta and work out of my home. I had
done a cake for someone in that law firm. I was called and asked to do
the Disney character cake and said no NUMEROUS times that day and the
next day. There were a few more calls on other days but I stopped
picking up when the caller id box identified them. I really would not
have thought twice about this whole thing if the calls had not
persisted. My advice would be JUST SAY NO!! A $10,000 fine is a lot
of money for a $20-$25 cake.

Date: November 13th, 1998 09:56:00
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Copyright solution???
That would probably work, but I think it would be too much hassle for most people. I was going to do the same kind of thing once for a friend. She had seen the Elmo cake I made for my daughter's birthday and wanted one for her daughter. i explained why I couldn't but she wouldn't drop it, kept trying to talk me into making an exception. So finally I told her she could buy the pan or borrow mine, bake the cake herself, and I would help her decorate it and she could pay me $20 for the decorating lesson, but she would have to do the work herself She said okay, then at the last minute decided she couldn't handle it and wanted me to just do a sheet cake and she would put the figures on it.

Date: November 14th, 1998 09:29:41
From: ann
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Serving size of round cakes
Oops! I didn't see the questions and several answers to this just a
little ways down this board. Sorry! I am still wondering, however,
about a 1 layer vs. a 2 layer cake. When I try to make a larger cake
(12 inches or 14 inches), it comes out to doughy in the middle (I bake
everything from scratch) for a 2 inch high cake so I bake it in 2 one
inch layers with a bit of buttercream spread in between. Do you think
this 2 layer cakes serves more than a 1 layer cake as it does end up
being a bit higher and having a small amount of filling? I was
wondering if the numbers below for your round cakes refer to a solid 14
inch layer, for example, or could also include 2 1 inch high 14 inch
layers? Thanks!! ann

Date: November 14th, 1998 09:45:48
From: John
e-mail: piferj@ptsi.net
Subject: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Hi Carolyn,
I do the cut out cookies. I outline and fill in also with buttercream.
I charge $9.00 per dozen if they will take an assortment of some
large ones, and some small ones. If they only want the large ones, I
charge $12.00 a dozen. I Don't get any complaints about the price,
you're soooo right, they are very time consuming. I do about 200 dozen
every year at christmas. Hope this helps you.

Date: November 15th, 1998 10:09:28
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
You're a busy guy, too, John. Where are you located? Your price was more on the line I thought they should be, but didn't figure I could get it even though I know they are worth it and no one else around here does anything comparable.

Date: November 15th, 1998 08:51:24
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Serving size of round cakes
hello ann;
if your cakes are not getting done in the middle you have to bake them
about 5-10 minutes longer &/or wrap the outside of the pan w/wet paper
or terry cloth toweling. this slowes down the baking of the cake at
the edges, allowing the middle to bake about the same as the rest.
as for the # of servings of several 1" layers vs one 2" layer there
should be no difference. the difference comes when you offer a 4" cake
vs a 2" one -- obviously twice as much cake :)
does that make sense??
lynne

Date: November 16th, 1998 10:18:30
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Hi John - where in Kansas are you? I think maybe I have talked to you on here before because I seem to remember a John in Kansas, but now can't remember where. I live just north of Kansas City. Are you involved in ICES??? We really need more men involved in our organization and the ICES convention will be in Kansas City in July, 1999. If you need more information, I will be glad to have a packet sent to you. You would not regret being involved - it is the greatest organization for cake decorators and at convention, you see about 1000 pieces of sugar art - cakes, cookies, gumpaste, and much more. It just blows my mind what people can create! Let me know!!

Date: November 16th, 1998 10:14:04
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
Oh, Kelly, you don't say when you need these, but you'd better get to practicing or you are going to be upset!!! Petit Fours are something most of us hate to do - even us that have many years in the cake business. However, back in the archives a few months, you will find some discussion on this. I have a friend who has shown me the easiest way I have seen to do them and they are very, very good. She makes her sheet cakes fairly thin - not a high as you would a normal cake. Then she freezes that. Cut small squares while it is frozen and have your chocolate ready to dip. She uses the Wilton chocolate melts - either in the white or chocolate. I think she uses about a tablespoon of crisco melted in with the chocolate and she does the chocolate in the microwave. Then while the chocolate is warm and the cake is frozen (yes, take out only a few pieces of cake at a time), poke a meat skewer into the cake and dip the cake. All will be covered except the bottom. Then have your racks up on cans of something and over a cake pan to catch the drips. Now take the cake with the skewer still in and put it on the rack and pull the skewer out from under the rack. Then when they are set up, just take a spatula and lift them off the rack. This is the easiest and tastiest way I have found to do them. They are very time consuming unless you have someone to help you. And, I would not charge any less than what you do for the wedding cake - maybe more. I charge $1.50 per slice of cake so I would not do them for less than that - maybe $2 each. You could do the cake much faster!!

Date: November 16th, 1998 09:03:32
From: John
e-mail: piferj@ptsi.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Hi Carolyn,
I'm located in Kansas, kind of away from everywhere. I'm the only one
here that does the decorated cookies in detail. The past couple of
years i've had to turn down so many, because I just can't do them all.
They are very time consuming. I just finished 15 dozen tonight.

Date: November 16th, 1998 05:02:13
From: kellyann
e-mail: kellyann@writeme.com
Subject: Petite Fors
How much should I charge for petite fors. I spoke to a bride who wants the wedding cake as the center piece but also wants petite fors to complete the number of servings needed. She wants the petite fors to be simple (good 'cause I've never done them before : ) Any suggestions?

By the way.......you all are great! I've received soooo much wonderful information from this web site and all of your imput. Thanks so much!

Date: November 16th, 1998 04:53:38
From: Lisa
e-mail: lisascakes@aol.com
Subject: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Cayolyn,

I agree with John 9 - 12 dollars a dozen does seem resonalbe to those of us that do it. But if I know the average person they don't want to pay that. Test out your market and see what they are will to pay for them. Then figure if you are willing to work that hard for it. :)

Date: November 17th, 1998 11:53:05
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Petite Fors - I forgot to mention
I forgot to mention that my friend puts raspberry filling between the 2 thin layers of cake. Yes, this is smaller than a regular slice of wedding cake, but much more involved than most wedding cakes - thus the charge compensates for the extra work involved!

Date: November 17th, 1998 11:58:21
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
Terri, I would charge at least 10 cents each for those - maybe more if you can get by with it!

The cream cheese mints you can also mold if you wish. You just need to roll a small ball of the mint mix into sugar and then mold and tap the mold to let the mint fall out.

Cream Cheese Mints

8 oz. cream cheese
1/2 tsp. peppermint flavoring (this is my favorite, but you can use whatever you wish)
approx. 8 cups of powdered sugar

Mix well with a Kitchenaid Mixer as it is too heavy for a small mixer.

Color whatever color you need and roll out like pie dough and cut with small aspic or canape cutters.

Date: November 17th, 1998 10:07:03
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
Now, I have to tell you all my funny story. A few years ago a lady came
to me for 10 dozen petit fours and I told her I would do them. I can't
remember what price I told her. Anyway, I had never done them before
and thought they would be a snap to do. Well, the day before she needed
them my husband and I started working on them and after about 4 hours of
frustration I asked my husband if he thought the bakery sold them. I
called the bakery for a price which was about 50 cents a dozen more than
I quoted the lady. I ordered those 10 dozen petit fours and delivered
them the next day. It only cost me $5.00 to get them done. The
customer called me the next day and said they were wonderful. I told
her I was glad to hear that and that I decided that wasn't my cup of
tea. Later, my daughter's boy friend's mother was visiting and said she
remembered coming to my house and that she was with that lady that
ordered those "wonderful" petit fours. LOL!!

Date: November 17th, 1998 09:12:08
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
I've been trying to decide on this, too. I'm thinking maybe $1 each? I use chocolate coating, and add oil flavorings, such as mint, almond, hazelnut, and irish creme. I'd like to get some input from others, too.

Date: November 17th, 1998 09:07:44
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Petite Fors
As others have said, you must used colors made for use with candy, or powdered colors. One word of warning about the Wilton candy colors, they give a very unpleasant taste, particularly the orange. I made a batch or orange candy to make fall leaves with, and the color made it taste extremely bitter and I had to throw it out. I recommend trying the powdered color, or buying pre-colored chocolate.

Date: November 17th, 1998 04:43:26
From: Debbie
e-mail: Tha503@aol.com
Subject: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
How much do you charge for chocolate coffee spoons? Thanks!

Date: November 17th, 1998 03:32:39
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
ann; they are a 1" cube -- 1x1x1 -- just one bite.
some people (like dolores) only charge like 69 cents for them, but then
they buy the cake pieces ready made and just dip them :)
no you cannot use wilton or any other *paste* color -- but you can use
*powdered colors* or wilton's candy colors.

please do let us know how they turn out and whether or not you would
ever do them again :)
lynne

Date: November 17th, 1998 02:59:04
From: Terri
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
Hi Carolyn!

I am talking about melting white chocolate, add coloring (if requested),
adding flavor, and then use molds in what ever shape the bride request.
Usually rectangle disk with their initials, or hearts. I also do the
same for baby showers.

If you don't mind could I have the recipe for cream cheese mints? I've
heard of these but haven't seen a recipe for them.

Thanks for your help.

Terri

Date: November 17th, 1998 02:27:33
From: Lena
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Petite Fours
Kellyann,
Hi! Well, for someone who hasn't done petit fours, Jody had the right
idea. I like Carolyn's idea of using melted chocolate.
I have done this and it isn't so bad. They are about 1"x1" square bites.
Petit fours are one-bite size serving and consider about 3-4 pieces per
person. The following information is from a book I have from TIME LIFE
books, called, "The Good Cook - Cakes".
Making miniature layer cakes called petit fours are not very
complicated. They are thin sheets of cake, sandwiched together with a
glaze, then cut into tiny diamonds, squares, circles, and coated with
shiny fondant icing. But care must be taken to retain the proper shape
after their extensive handling. The basic layers must be formed of a
smooth cake dense enough to be cut into clearly define shapes and
strong enough to withstand the weighting needed to make the layers
adhere. A creamed cake such as pound cake is the perfect choice.(They
show a picture of the one cake they are demonstrating with) they say
derives extra flavor and strength from including almond paste in the
batter. For even more flavor-and sharper edges- a sheet of almond paste
is rolled onto the top of the cake layers. You can frost petit fours by
either dipping them in fondant, or to avoid potential damage, pouring
the fondant over them. Possible garnishes include candied flowers, nuts,
or piped stripes of a different-colored icing. The End.

Poundcake Recipe (from the book)
1 lb. butter- softened
2 c. sugar
10 eggs
2 TB. vanilla extract or brandy
4 c. cake flour

(This recipe may be enriched with 1 lb. almond paste. Mix the broken-up
paste with the sugar before creaming it with the butter.)

Cream the butter well, add sugar gradually, and cream the mixture until
it is light and fluffy. Add eggs, 2 at a time, beating well after each
addition. Add flavoring. Sift flour twice and add it gradually to the
batter, beating until smooth. Pour the mixture into 3 loaf pans that
have been buttered, floured, & lined with parchment paper. Bake at 300*,
for 1 hr. and 15 mins. ( For the petit fours- bake three thin poundcake
layers in prepared jelly-roll pans: cool them in pans.)With a spatula,
spread a thin coat of apricot jam glaze, scraping all excess glaze.
invert a second layer onto the first, remove the pan & parchment paper,
and glaze this layer. Repeat with the third layer. Optional: Roll
almond paste into a rectangle slightly larger than the layers. Roll the
paste around the rolling pin, then unroll it onto the cake and trim to
fit. Invert a jelly-roll pan over the assemblyin its pan, then invert
the pans so the paste is on the bottom. Place 3-4 pounds of weights on
top & refrigerate overnight. The next day, invert the cake onto a work
surface, covered with a sheet of parchment paper, then start to cut
your shapes 1 1/2in. by 1 1/2in. Place them on a baking sheet, when
done, place the cake by shape on a cookie rack and do your icing
method. You can use different colors with the poured fondant icing and
let set to dry. Then decorate the tops.
I have done these with both reg. cake(frozen) and dense cake. I would
rather use dense cakes to have less crumbs. You can use melted white
chocolate and use food coloring of your choice instead of using fondant.
You can even add melted chocolate/white choc. to your fondant to make
your choice of the choc. flavor.
I think I better sign off, I didn't mean to get thorough with this
topic. I like doing petit fours. There are other petit fours such as
miniture fruit tarts, pecan tarts, cream puffs eclairs, etc. I would
consider for the cakes, to charge $1.50 - $2.00 ea., for the rest of
the other pastries, I have mentioned, probably, .75 - $1.00. Well,
I better give someone else a chance to reply. Good Luck! Lena

(To make liqueur-flavored glaze,combine the jam/jelly with 1 tablespoon
of liqueur before melting it. This recipe produces enough glaze to fill
& cover the top of a 2-layer, 9"rd. cake. Use 1 c. jelly/jam : In a
saucepan set over med. heat, melt the jelly/jam until it is liquid.
Melted jelly/jam can be used immediately. Melted jam should be forced
through a fine-meshed sieve to remove any lumps of fruit, and used
while it is still liquid.)

Date: November 17th, 1998 01:49:37
From: Selina
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Petite Fors
If you want to colour the chocolate you must use the candy colours. Do not use regular food colouring as they will harden the choc. Candy colours are oil based and the only way to do it.

Date: November 17th, 1998 12:58:07
From: Tricia
e-mail: ttleahy2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Petite Fors
Ann:

Wilton makes coloring specifically for candy. That should work. It
comes in a package of 4 colors (red, yellow, blue & orange). I
wouldn't think that it would break down the chocolate since it's made
to use with candy. Good luck...I've always wanted to try these, but
have changed my mind since reading this board!! They look so simple!!

Date: November 17th, 1998 01:09:25
From: JudyD
e-mail: jadudek@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
Kellyann, do you think you could change her mind?? LOL A few years
ago, I did 36 DOZEN petit fours for a bride who just wanted a one-tier
cake for the centerpiece and trays of petit fours surrounding it. I
still have nightmares about that!! Carolyn gave you good advice -
practice ahead of time, and allow PLENTY of lead time. I used mini
muffin pans for mine instead of cutting a sheet cake, and used poured
fondant. It takes practice to get them covered well! The dipping
sounds like a good idea, but wouldn't there be crumbs in your icing??
I think I charged $6.00 a dozen (about 6-7 years ago). Would
definitely charge much more now!!! Check with the "fancy" bakeries in
your area, and charge a bit more that they do! Good Luck!! :)

Date: November 17th, 1998 11:39:56
From: ann
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Petite Fors
What size are petit fors, generally (ie, how big do you cut the
squares?). You said you'd charge the same as a slice of cake, but
they aren't as BIG as a slice of cake--correct?

So are they relatively short as they are just cut from a sheet cake and
does that look OK? I'm making some for the first time this weekend for
a baby shower. I'd like to try white, pink and blue (gender of baby not
known yet). Can I add a bit of pink/blue Wilton paste to the white
chocolate? I've heard that might break it down, but I wondered if
anyone had tried? Thanks!

Date: November 17th, 1998 11:06:20
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
Hi -- I've not actually done them, but I've always wanted to! Don't
know why, because I'm sure they're probably a pain. The way that I've
always seen them done is with poured fondant or other type of pourable
icing that will dry. Freeze the cake, cut them into small squares and
then place them on top of a rack that is sitting over foil or a large
cookie sheet (to catch drippings). Then you take an apricot glaze (or
whatever flavor you prefer) to coat the cake by spooning it over each
piece. This is to keep your crumbs down and gives your piece a smooth
look. After that's on, you spoon your poured fondant over the piece and
let it dry. Good luck!

Date: November 19th, 1998 12:11:07
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
John, I sent you an e-mail direct so I will look forward to hearing from you and look forward to meeting you in Kansas City at the ICES convention in July, 1999!!!

Date: November 19th, 1998 12:14:00
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
I usually just use the peppermint flavoring I buy in the grocery store - the clear kind - not the green kind. These are very easy and also tasty. I use the flat beater on my kitchenaid mixer.

Date: November 18th, 1998 04:16:24
From: John
e-mail: piferj@ptsi.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anyone doing decorated cut out cookies and for what price?
Hi Carolyn, I live in Southwest Kansas. I am a member of ICES, but have
not had the opportunity to participate in many of the shows. I was in
St Paul, and did go to the cake room, but that was all I was able to do.
I would like to do more next year in Kansas City. If you could send me
the information packet, I would appreciate it. I was going to email
this to you direct, but couldn't get it to go. Hope you see this.
Thanks!!!

Date: November 18th, 1998 10:04:51
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: What a hoot!!! (LOL) (nt)

Date: November 18th, 1998 11:03:44
From: Michelle
e-mail: mogrady@x2.alliance.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
Carolyn,
For the peppermint flavoring do you mean like the wilton candy
flavoring? That stuff is so concentrated 1/2 tsp. seems like too
much! Or do you mean a different style of flavoring?

Also, do you use the dough hook for that or the flat beater?

BTW, these sound delicious and easy!

Thank you!

Date: November 19th, 1998 11:39:15
From: Carolyn
e-mail: Bridal1
Subject: Re: bizarre
You might want to check about the Health Dept. laws before you get into this. Some states/counties are lenient on this - others aren't. I'd hate to go to all this work and then not be able to sell it. What about adding maybe cupcakes and decorated Christmas or holiday cookies to your list?

Date: November 20th, 1998 12:19:53
From: dee
e-mail: ChefNana1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
no, i use the heavy plastic party spoons. For Christmas, i use red, green, silver, and gold ones. I've never tried the molds. that sounds like a good idea, though. The choc. lasts longer on the spoon, I would think. When yours melts, does the choc. just break off the end?
dee

Date: November 19th, 1998 11:12:47
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
Are you just dipping a real spoon in melted chocolate? I use a spoon mold, so that only the handles are plastic and the bowl of the spoon is solid chocolate.

Date: November 19th, 1998 10:04:30
From: dee
e-mail: ChefNana1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
hi..I live very near New Orleans. I charge 1.50 each. My coatings are several layers thick, though. If I use 2 colors (white & milk chocolate) as a marbled effect or the slanted layer effect, then I charge 2.00. How thick are your layers?

dee:):)

Date: November 19th, 1998 03:42:50
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
I also would love to have the recipe for cream cheese mints.
Michelle

Date: November 19th, 1998 04:58:21
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: did you ever tell her the whole story?? (nt)
No, I haven't, but I bet my daughter's boyfriend's mother has. Just
goes to show you it is a small world. I would share it with her if I
ever saw her again. They were for a 50th wedding anniversary
celebration. I couldn't believe it only cost me $5.00 out of pocket to
get out of that mess. The bakery I called was a real reliable bakery
and I knew if they did petit fours they would be good. The thing that
surprised me was how close I came to pricing them since I had never done
them before. That was the best $5.00 I ever spent! I was just 50 cents
a dozen under their price. I would have gladly paid more if I had to.
When the woman who wanted them came to my house she brought this other
lady with her. I didn't know either one of them. But we have a house
that is hard to forget because of all the brick work around it and that
is how my daughter's boyfriend's mother knew who I was. I did tell her
about what happened and she just laughed.

Date: November 19th, 1998 03:28:31
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: bizarre
I am going to be doing a booth for a bizarre for the first time. I
will be selling baked goods. Has anyone done bizarres before? I would
appreciate any helpful hints (prices, packaging). I will be selling
pumpkin rolls, cinnamon rolls, caramels, fudge, peanut butter bon bons,
coconut bon bons, turtles, butterfingers, divinity, pecan logs, sweetie
pies, cocktail pasties, russian tea, and candy molds. Are these good
items. If not please let me know. Does anyone have suggestions on any
different goodies to sell? Thank you for helping me.

Date: November 19th, 1998 04:49:15
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: prices
hi michelle;
hon, if you take the time to read the posts on this pg you will see
this has been discussed many, many times.
it is against the law to *sell* any special character such as
mickey/minnie mouse; garfield, barney; etc, etc. that is noted on each
pan sold (probably on the paper insert).
also please check out the other catagories and the archives as we go
over this very often.

each state has different laws as to what needs to be done in order to
get a lisence -- and i've heard in some states it varies from town to
town. this also have been discussed often on the board. in most
states it is impossible to be allowed to work out of your home.
that has not stopped hundreds and possible thousands of people, but it
is a moral thing we all have to deal with.
when ever you advertise you become 'commercial' and therefor come under
the laws of a bakery.
i hope this has given you lots to think about. good luck
lynne

Date: November 19th, 1998 03:20:52
From: michelle curran
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject:

Date: November 19th, 1998 03:22:36
From: michelle curran
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: prices
I have made novelty/character (wilton cake pans) cakes for many years.
I usually make them for family and friends. I would like to start
advertising them. Does anyone have suggestions on how to market these
cakes or how to price them?

Date: November 19th, 1998 01:32:03
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: did you ever tell her the whole story?? (nt)

Date: November 19th, 1998 08:45:19
From: Dolores
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright cops
Lynne is correct. 'Checker' walks into store, orders a cake, picks it
up, delivers summons=$10,000.00 fine...unless you hire attorneys and pay
THEM. Is it worth it? And why would you wan tto infringe on someone
else's copyrights in the first place? This is dishonest. Plain & simple.

The way it is...there is a group of lawyers and all they do is look
around for copyright infrigments so they have cases. That is how they
make their living. This includes and item, be it edible, a craft, or
whatever. Be wary at craft shows too!

Why do it for any reason? I sure wouldn't like it very well if I
developed a hit character and someone did this to me. 'do unto others as
you would have them do unto you'...I was told many years ago. If you
follow this rule, you will have no problems.

There are so many alternatives. We now have wonderful little characters
and you can put them into a scenery on the cake. Or the Edible Image for
a picture.

Date: November 20th, 1998 09:34:40
From: Debbie
e-mail: Tha503@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
I have to confess! I have never made the chocolate spoons before. I found the directions on this web site and I hope to try them this coming week (time permitting). I thought that they might make great gifts, placed in a basket with some gourmet coffee. I also thought that I would make and sell some but I am unsure about pricing. How much would you charge for the spoons made in the mold. Also which are better, the dipped or molded spoons? I guess that there are pros and cons to both but I would love to hear others opinions on this. Thanks in advance.

Date: November 20th, 1998 09:34:34
From: Debbie
e-mail: Tha503@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
I have to confess! I have never made the chocolate spoons before. I found the directions on this web site and I hope to try them this coming week (time permitting). I thought that they might make great gifts, placed in a basket with some gourmet coffee. I also thought that I would make and sell some but I am unsure about pricing. How much would you charge for the spoons made in the mold. Also which are better, the dipped or molded spoons? I guess that there are pros and cons to both but I would love to hear others opinions on this. Thanks in advance.

Date: November 21st, 1998 12:08:04
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: copyright laws...
hi diane;
the laws are confusing to most of us & i am *not* any expert on them :)
to my understanding, **selling** anything for profit w/any kind of
lisenced/copyrighted figure/likeness is not legal.
in other words what you discribed is not allowed to be sold.
if you look at the lable of that candy mold carefully i'm sure you will
find some small print saying something like "for home use only". i
know it is on the paper insert of most pans and some candles.
hope this help you.
lynne

Date: November 20th, 1998 02:42:44
From: Diane Bruder
e-mail: DLB1962@juno.com
Subject: copyright laws...
I am new to this page and see a lot about the copyright laws regarding
character pans..I have never done a character cake for profit. I find
them boring anyway... all those stars...drives me nuts! Anyway, I was
wondering if the same holds true for character candles, or cookie
molds, or chocolate molds. I just gave away a book cake for a friend's
birthday, and drew a Winnie character on rice paper on one side, and
made pop-up chocolate characters of Piglet, Tigger, and Eyore on the
other side. They were from a chocolate pour mold, that, I am sure was
probably copyrighted. Could I have gotten into trouble had I charged
for that cake with the molds or candles on them bearing the characters?

Is this a stupid question? I hope not; I just want to know, so if I
ever have anyone wanting me to put figures or candles on of any of
these creatures, I am not slapped with a fine.

Diane

Date: November 20th, 1998 11:03:31
From: Terri
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pricing for mints
Carolyn,

Thanks for the recipe and the suggestion. I've been charging 20 cents
each and thought that was too much.

Thanks again!

Terri

Date: November 23rd, 1998 12:18:52
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: pricing
I'm in Kentucky and my prices start at $17 for a 1 mix cake, $23 for a 1-1/2 mix cake, $28 for a 2 mix cake, and $33 for a 2-1/2 mix cake. My wedding cakes start at $1 per serving for a very basic, all white buttercream cake with no flowers and simple decorations, most run about $1.25. My prices include a moderate amount of decorating, and I charge extra for more elaborate decorating, special cake and icing flavors, and fillings. My prices are a little lowers than I'd like, but we just moved here and I wanted to attract business to get going again. I hope to raise them a little in 6 months or so.

Date: November 22nd, 1998 10:42:10
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: license to sell baked goods...
Hi, Donna: You need to go back and check out all the discussions we
have had on this subject. I am a home-based business, licensed legally,
and it does not matter how many cakes I do from my home. I did not have
to have anything special done to my kitchen. The way I see it I have
the best of all worlds. I am required to charge a state sales tax and a
business tax, which is minimal. I left one county and moved into
another county in the same state in order to be legal. So, you can see,
there are a lot of different rules and regulations regarding getting
legal. If you think you want to be legal, call your local licensing
department and find out what the requirements are without telling them
everything. Last year we did eight and ten weddings a week from our
home. I had spinal surgery a year ago and have since stopped taking
more than 4 weddings a week and we still book up.
Go into the archives and read up on what everyone has to say. There has
been numerous discussions about getting legal and copyrighting.

Date: November 22nd, 1998 07:45:21
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: license to sell baked goods...
hi donna; this has got to be the 2nd most discussed topic on this
board! :) i hope you will take some time to ck out the archives for
past conversations on this.

the laws vary from state to state and even w/in each state from county
to county. very few will allow a home to be licensed.
here in calif each county is responsible for enforcing state laws.
therefore each inspector inturpits )sp??) the laws as they see fit.
another decorator told me that the lady who inspected my shop told her
'they don't care if you do one or two wedding cakes out of your home'
just as long as you don't advertise. they don't have the personell nor
time to find everyone who does a couple of cakes now and then. but
they do have time to fine me for making a 16" layer at home and selling
that thru my shop!! (my commercial oven wasn't big enought to make it
there so i would bake it at home).
many, many people have started their business by baking/selling cakes
etc at home. in most cases as long as you don't advertise they won't
bother you. that includes putting a classified ad in the paper;
handing out business cards; or putting flyer up on bulliten boards.

when you are making 5-6 cakes a week it's time to open a shop! then
you can advertise and bring in more business......legally:)
lynne

Date: November 22nd, 1998 06:23:27
From: Cathy
e-mail: Thinkchoc
Subject: Re: Chocolate Coffee Spoons
Hi,

I live on Long Island,NY, and the coffee spoons go anywhere from $1.50-$1.65 each.

I've made them with the mold (the bowl of the spoon is solid chocolate and the handle is a plastic one laid in the mold). They melt slowly like the ones made on the plastic spoons. I put a small holiday sugar ornament on the bowl part and wrap them in the lollypop bags with a bow.

Date: November 22nd, 1998 06:37:28
From: Donna
e-mail:
Subject: license to sell baked goods...
I recently finished a cake decorating class and had several people ask
if I would decorate a cake for them. They said they would pay me, but
a friend of mine said that in order to sell any type of food from your
home you have to have the agricultural dept. visit your house and then
you have to have a whole bunch of stuff done to it: ie: a 3 basin
sink, special ovens, etc. If you are caught not doing so, isn't there
a huge fine... I feel discouraged right now about the whole thing...
Any suggestions? Another friend of mine told me to bake somewhere else
than my home, someplace already approved, like a church's kitchen...and
rent the space..Another told me to bake for a bakery.. Any
suggestions? What do you all do?

Date: November 22nd, 1998 03:30:52
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: pricing
Hi, Beth: There has been more discussion on pricing in the archives. A
lot of pricing depends upon where you live. I live in the Northern Va.
area near Dulles airport and here is what I get:

10" - 25.00
9x13 - $30.00
11x15 - $45.00
15x18- $60.00

Date: November 22nd, 1998 02:35:09
From: Cassie
e-mail: cwesterd@pressenter.com
Subject: Re: bizarre
I just recently did a craft show and had wedding cakes on display.I made
cupecake and petite loaf cakes and charged $1.00 because I frosted and
decorated them. Well after an hour of sitting there and lots of people
commenting on how cute they were I saw some little kid walk by with a
cupcake so I set out to find where they were coming from. Two tables
from mine a group from the school was having a fund raiser and selling
cupcakes not frosted for .25!! I made two hundred thinking they would go
really good. I only sold 20!!! Now I know for next time.

Date: November 22nd, 1998 02:17:49
From: Cassie
e-mail: cwesterd@pressenter.com
Subject: Re: Copyright solution???
I just have a quick question about copyright laws....If a customer
wanted you to draw a picture that they found in a book or magazine and
there is no copyright on that particular picture could you still draw
this picture? example: a customer owns a winnie the pooh story book
wants me to draw this winnie the pooh on one of the pictures in this
book. Is this legal or not? thanks for your hellp

Date: November 22nd, 1998 01:16:07
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: pricing
hi beth -- nice to see you around again. i have missed you :)

i base all my pricing on the size of the cake. any one mix
size/special shape runs $15-20 depending on how much decorating goes
into it. that includes 'regular' cake flavors and filling. i have a
few special flavors/fillings that i charge $5 ea extra for. so, as an
example: 8" round 2 layers (1 1/2 mixes) would be $18 basic decorating
and regular flavor/fillin; special/elaborate decorating $24; add
special cake flavor $29; add special cake flavor *&* filling $35

any 1/4 sheet or shaped pan using 1 mix, reg flavor and filling goes
for $15; for special decorations add $5; for special flavor or
filling another $5.

don't know what to tell you about the g.b. tree. it dosn't sell around
here, as they can do it themselves.
hope that helps you out some.
lynne

Date: November 22nd, 1998 01:05:16
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: General
soooo very sorry we scared you to death :)

this has become such a big topic of discussion over the past year.
some people have been working out of their home selling to co-workers
for years w/o any problems and you probably can **but** it comes down
to a moral issue of whether you are going to break the law or not.

i hope you have taken time to read the posts still on the board and
those in the archives to get other opinions and ideas then make up your
own mind how you will proceed.

as to your ?: wilton paid a hefty fee to make the pans based on the
idea they would be used by 'little suzie homemaker' to make a cake for
her child. the fee paid did not include commercial rights and that's
what it becomes when you sell the cake. for those commercial rights
you would have to deal w/each person/company that owns the copyright.
the fees, if they would even consider sell them to you, are **very!**
hefty........probably in the millions.

hope that simplifies the explination for you and others.
lynne

Date: November 22nd, 1998 12:56:52
From: Beth in Sicily
e-mail: sparky@videobank.it
Subject: pricing
I can't seem to decide prices for some of my new cakes. I haven't
advertised them yet because I am clueless.

Here is an example of my prices:
8" $10 Basic decorating I bought the Holiday House pan. It holds
9" $10 basic decorating one cake mix. I need an idea of 2 prices
10" ? Basic decorating one for basic decorating and another for
9x13 single layer $20 very elaborate decorations.
11x15 single layer $30
12x18 single layer $40 What about the Wilton cookie tree. I would
like to offer it completely done and also
as a kit with baked cookies & a container
of icing.

Thank-you for any input. I appreciate any help at all. Beth in Sicily

Date: November 22nd, 1998 10:28:35
From: Debbie
e-mail: jagator30@aol.com
Subject: Re: what would you do?
No, I would not charge any less. You are charging for your time,
materials and the decorating. The only expense for the pan comes with
the first initial purchase of the pan out of the first cake. Once you
have bought the pan you wouldn't then discount the next cake you bake.

Thats my opinion !!! Love it or leave it!! :-)

Date: November 22nd, 1998 12:40:36
From: Beth in Sicily
e-mail: sparky@videobank.it
Subject: Re: bizarre
I do several festivals and bazzars each year. In my experiences I have
found the Girl Scouts and the PTSA to be my only problems. They usually
have their items for "donation" only when you have set prices. If you
have a choice in where you select your table you want to be across the
room from them if possible. Another thing that helps is if you can set
up earlier in the day than they do. Hungry people won't care if cheaper
food is coming in half an hour, they want sweets now! Also if you stay
open longer than they do, you can pick up a little extra business.

I don't mean anything against G.S. or the PTSA as I am a member of both,
but I am also in business for myself. I hope nobody will take offense.

Beth in Sicily

Date: November 22nd, 1998 10:18:08
From: Debbie
e-mail: jagator30@aol.com
Subject: Re: prices
Hi Michelle, it appears that "we" cant do this!! Sorry, you might
want to just stick with family and friends! Its a shame I know!!

Date: November 22nd, 1998 10:13:36
From: Debbie
e-mail: Jagator30@aol.com
Subject: General
WOW!! I must admit you guys have really scared me with all of this
copyright info and zoning permits. I signed on to get a few ideas for
cakes and found out I might me breaking all kinds of laws. I took the
classes at Michaels back in January and have been decorating since. I
LOVE IT!! I do it for a hobby and make a little on the side. Its not
an income. I work for a big company and my co-workers are my biggest
customers. I had no idea I couldn't "sell" a character cake. That is
just terrible!! Why do they sell the pans ???? I am not looking for
an expert to reply but maybe someone who can enlighten me a little!!

Thanks!!!!

Date: November 23rd, 1998 11:05:55
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: pricing
The 10" is a 3" 2 cake mix pan, and the sheet cakes are 2" pans. I
charge $5.00 extra for fillings.

Date: November 23rd, 1998 08:54:25
From: dee
e-mail: ChefNana1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: pricing
marida........
your prices: are they for single layers, double layers, or single layer torted?
Is this simple or elaborate decorations?
thanks.......
dee:):)

Date: November 23rd, 1998 06:07:59
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: license to sell baked goods...
So are you saying you are "partially legal"? That is, reporting your income and pyaing taxes, but in violation of the health code? Do you have a business license? Do you do any advertising or bridals hows? I'm kind of in the same situation. Where I am I could be legal except for the health dept. They will not approve any home kitchen. I haven't gotten a business license or reported my income yet because I haven't decided whether it's better to be partially legal, or safer to just not tell anybody anything. I don't advertise, but I would like to do a small local bridal show. I'm just afraid that might draw the wrong attention.

Date: November 23rd, 1998 04:56:11
From: kellyann
e-mail: kellyann@writeme.com
Subject: Re: one more thing
I forgot to mention.

I do advertise and I've never had a problem - In the local paper and through business cards and flyers.

Date: November 23rd, 1998 04:51:48
From: kellyann
e-mail: kellyann@writeme.com
Subject: Re: license to sell baked goods...
Hi Donna.

I too have a home-based business (since 1995). I was required by the IRS (they scare me) to purchase a sales tax license due to the number of cakes I do each week and I do report my income. There are however other requirements to become "legal" depending on where you live.

After contacting the health dept., I realized that they have better things to do with their time, then to check on a home-based business like mine. And someone once mentioned to me "what are they (health dept.) going to do? Get a warrant and search your house for cake? As long as no one complains about your business, you shouldn't have any problems.

Contact the IRS, Health Dept., or your county, to see what they have to say.

Don't be discouraged!!!

Date: November 25th, 1998 12:15:14
From: Nancy
e-mail: morgan0818@aol.com
Subject: Re: license to sell baked goods...
California has some very strick rules about home based bakeries. In
Northern California especially, they watch very closely for those of us
that do this. The fine is $1,000 her in Northern California.
Although, I think they do give you a warning first. There is a
chocolate supply shop near me that started in their home and were told
that they could not operate out of their homes. They did find a shop
to go into.

There is also a cake shop here that originally started in her home. A
local bakery turned her in and she was warned 2 times before they were
going to fine her. She said if she had it to do over again she would
do the same thing. She feels you should go for it until you get caught
and then you can search to upgrade into something else.

Hope this helps.
Nancy

Date: November 24th, 1998 08:32:41
From: Emily
e-mail: ekristek@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: Help in pricing
Lynne, whenever you say divide the cake, are you referring to using a
cake scorer? If so, where did you get it. Can you describe it to me?
I've been looking for one, but have not been able to find one lately.
Thanks for all the help. Emily.

Date: November 24th, 1998 02:36:33
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Help in pricing
You will probably need 3 12x18 or some other configuration. I get
$60.00 for a 12x18 and $45.00 for an 11x15 and $30.00 for a 9x13. I
charge $2.00 per slice for wedding cakes. I live in Northern Virginia
near Dulles airport. Where you live has a lot to do with pricing.
Check the archives.

Date: November 24th, 1998 02:55:44
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Help in pricing
hi heatherlee;

dealing w/your church can be tricky :) some people don't want to
charge them at all others a lower than usual price and still others
their usual price......so it';s up to you.

my church asked for what worked out to 25 1/2 sheets (12x16). i
figured out a price i thought was reasonable but about 1/2 of what i
usually would charge. they insisted paying me (in advanced) the full
price :) they will all be butter pecan and i plan on dividing them w/a
small pipped decoration on each sq. the total price was $750.

as carolyn said, if you are going to do a tiered creation i'd charge
about $.25-$1.50 a serving.

we'd love to hear about your plans. please do let us know.
lynne

p.s. did you send me an e-mail w/jpg?? if so, could you re-send as it
would not d/l :(

Date: November 24th, 1998 01:46:37
From: Carolyn
e-mail: bridal1
Subject: Re: Help in pricing
You don't say if this is for sheet cakes or tiered cakes which would make a big difference. If it is sheet cakes, you would probably need about 3 of the 12 x 18 size. I get $32 per each of those. If it is a tiered cake, you'd probably want to charge anywhere from at least $1 per serving to $1.50 per serving. Maybe this will help a little. I am in a rural area 30 miles from Kansas City.

Date: November 24th, 1998 01:17:38
From: HeatherLee
e-mail: heatherlee@shaw.wave.ca
Subject: Help in pricing
Hi! everyone,

I have been asked by my church to make a Christmas cake for their annual
dance/party. It has to feed approximately 130-150 people (for the 10th
of December). My problem is pricing, I have tried getting prices over
the phone from local shops. But they refuse to give prices without an
appointment. The line I get is that each cake is indivually priced, and
there are no base prices. I have tried figuring out my cost in
different ways, but I come up with something different with each try. I
am not sure what to do with the cost when/if I get it right. Do you add
an hourly rate and double the cost or what? Any suggestions greatly
appreciated. Thanks

I posted this in another category along with another question. But
realized this part should be here.

HeatherLee

Date: November 24th, 1998 01:08:15
From: HeatherLee S
e-mail: heatherlee@shaw.wave.ca
Subject: Re: General
Debbie,

Don't let all the confusing talk deter you from helping out your
friends. But like Lynn says you have to decide for yourself. I too am
just starting out, but I happen to know of 2 cake shops in my area that
do exactly what you described. You can go into these shops on any given
day an see character cakes or something else just as wrong. Why they
try to get away with it is beyond me. I personally don't do anything
with pipes and tips so I do not do character cakes. If you are really
concerned, try molding something to look similar but not exactly like
the character. It may be stretching it, but it certainly makes me feel
more legit. My dream is to be completely legit and have my own shop.
But how many people with shops started out there? My guess would be not
many.

HeatherLee

Date: November 24th, 1998 11:39:06
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: license to sell baked goods...
You need to check with your local zoning office to find out what you
need to do to get legal. I am legal and did not have to have a special
kitchen. the health department never got involved. Each state has
their own rules and regulations so you can't super guess what the
outcome will be until you check.

Date: November 24th, 1998 11:23:35
From: Jody
e-mail: RunyanFmly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Copyright solution???
No. Winnie the Pooh himself is what is copyrighted... not the picture.
This goes for any copyrighted character whether it's Disney, Sesame
Street or from the Sunday funnies. If you read down further on this
board and in the archives... we've pretty much discussed every angle on
this subject.

There aren't any ways around it... you have to work with it. I'm
currently trying to get information from Disney about my "copyright
solution" and whether or not this would be o.k. Until then, the only
legal options would be to use the plastic figures or the edible images.

Date: November 24th, 1998 09:44:55
From: kellyann
e-mail: kellyann@writeme.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: license to sell baked goods...
Gosh, what a delicate subject this is.

I guess you could say that I'm "partially legal". The IRS can fine you (and in extreme cases, put you in jail) for not reporting your income. So, I purchased a sales tax licence - a minimal expense.

The health department can "shut you down" if you don't comply with their regulatuions. But in order to comply, I would need a completely separate kitchen, with commercial equipment, etc. (the list goes on & on). Anyway, the expense is just something I can't afford at this point.

I haven't (yet) advertised at bridal shows. Booth rental's can be expensive ($300-$400) for the weekend. I have however advertised through my local newspaper and this has worked quite well. I also have business cards and flyers.

Let us know how things go.

Date: November 24th, 1998 08:59:54
From: Julie Campbell
e-mail: thecampbells@sprintmail.com
Subject: Re: bizarre
I'm going to be doing my first craft show, too. In addition to the
items you mentioned, I'm doing hard candy wreaths, trees and topiaries.
Also, I'm going to do chocolate lollipops and mason jars filled with
M&M's and a nice bow. I'm also going to have a raffle to help attract
some attention; hopefully this will work. The show is being held at my
son's elementary school where they'll have Santa and they have a secret
shopping street. The kids bring in a list with how much they are
allowed to spend on each person on their list and volunteers walk the
kids down the shopping lane and help them pick out gifts; the kids love
it! If anyone has any other ideas for bizarre/craft show items, I'd
love to hear from you. Have a very happy thanksgiving.

Date: November 25th, 1998 05:27:19
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Birdhouse cake pricing
hi amity;

i know getting started can be expensive, but you really cannot charge
the customer for everything you had to purchace for that cake.
as i remember you were doing it somewhat as a 'favore' since she wanted
you to really stretch your talents. if you have not settled w/her,
reconsider and charge her about 1/2 that amount. you certainly will
get to use those tips and bags (if you bought them just for this) over
and over. i know the stand part isn't used that often, but that's just
part of doing business.
if there is a next time for something like this do be very up front
w/the person as soon as you price everything and get an ok.

lynne

Date: November 25th, 1998 02:55:31
From: Jennifer
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Re: Birdhouse cake pricing
I forgot you asked about the doll cake, too. That is a one-mix pan, I think. So I would charge $17, unless the dress was to be very elaborate or use fondant. If I was providing the doll, I would add the cost of that to the price. For cupcakes, I would charge $0.75-$1 each, depending on how much decorating they had (I get about 18 cupcakes from 1 mix).

Date: November 25th, 1998 02:50:33
From: Jennifer
e-mail: gigimama@aol.com
Subject: Re: Birdhouse cake pricing
If you were including the cost of the plates and columns, that should have been made clear and you should have told her how much they cost before you did the cake. Usually, people are not charged for reusable supplies such as columns and plates, other than a refundable security deposit. If you did not forsee any future need for those items and did not want to purchase them yourself, then it would be up to her to choose another design or buy the items herself. I would have charged whatever the normal price for the base cake, plus $15-20 for the birdhouse part, and a security deposit for the plates and columns that would be refunded when they were returned.

Date: November 25th, 1998 12:27:23
From: JudyD
e-mail: jadudek@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Re: Help in pricing
If you din't want to invest in a cake scorer, or don't have time to get
one, a piece of thread or dental floss and a ruler work just fine!!
(Mark the edges of your cake at desired intervals and, holding the ends
of the thread taut, press in lightly into the icing until it leaves a
line.) Have been using that method for years ;)

Date: November 25th, 1998 10:47:56
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Help in pricing
dolores sells several sizes.
what i do is measure it off into 2" sqs. and w/a tip 14 make zig zag
or shells (2 lines so they cut between them -- that way each piece has
a border of sorts.
lynne

Date: November 25th, 1998 10:27:46
From: Amity
e-mail: monkers@swbell.net
Subject: Birdhouse cake pricing
I recently made the Birdhouse cake in the Wilton yearbook except used a
11 X 15 sheet cake for the bottom, for a friend housewarming party. I
agreed to only charge her only what it cost me to make the cake, and i
would get to keep the supplies (columns, tips etc.).
The cake turned out pretty good considering I'm a beginner. She thought
it looked great, but when I gave her the receipts and the total of $42
and some change she was appauld. Was this to much should I have (eaten)
some of the cost. If anyone has made this cake how much did you charge.
Also I've been asked to make a Barbie doll cake with the long dress plus
cupcakes on the side for more servings. How much do I charge for this
person if I already have the pan and the person is suppling the doll.

Date: November 27th, 1998 07:00:16
From: Carolyn
e-mail: Bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Birdhouse cake pricing
I don't recall the birdhouse and don't have my book handy so won't comment on that much. However, if the plastic pieces could be reused, then I would say not to charge for those unless you just think you would never use them again. On the Barbie Doll, I usually figure about 1 1/2 mixes for that cake and I charge $22 plus the doll. Sometimes they bring the doll they want to use. Other times, I just buy the cheapest Barbie I can find and add that cost.

Date: November 27th, 1998 05:45:44
From: Marida
e-mail: binsted@erols.com.
Subject: Re: I.C.E.S. membership
Carolyn: The representatives don't represent any company or anything
like that. They are usually well known cake decorators who belong to
I.C.E.S. and are elected to those positions by other cake decorators.
they have the same interest and knowledge as most of us and would answer
your questions in the same manner any of us would. It is a great
organization to belong to and you will learn a lot from many experienced
decorators within your state and in other states as well. Your rep.
would be knowledgeable concerning sharing days, various meetings and
anything else you might need to know.

Date: November 27th, 1998 06:55:02
From: Carolyn
e-mail: Bridal1
Subject: Re: Re: I.C.E.S. membership
I speak on behalf of ICES being the greatest organization for cake decorators and we are glad that you have joined. Your Rep is there to help you in any way she can. However, if you are afraid of being turned in, I would just keep quiet as to what my business is all about. I hope you will consider coming to our Missouri 1999 ICES Convention. Once you come, I guarantee you will be hooked and want to go every year. It is a fantastic place to meet other cake decorators, see other work - especially work from foreign countries and a place for you to grow as a person and as a decorator. It is the greatest! I'm a charter member and have only missed one convention since 1977. I would do without a lot of things before I'd give up going to convention.

Date: November 27th, 1998 11:04:08
From: CarolynD
e-mail: themecakes@aol.com
Subject: I.C.E.S. membership
Hi,
I've just recently sent in my subscription to I.C.E.S. and was
wondering.. They said I would get the name of my local rep. when I
join. Does this person assist me with questions that I frequently see
posted here (i.e. pricing, local health regs., copyrights, etc..) or do
they have to 'speak the company line' and tell me to do things by the
book? I'm just asking here because I thought I'd have an impartial
audience and I'm afraid to ask the rep. for fear of being turned in by
them... Thanks in advance for any info!

Date: November 27th, 1998 10:43:46
From: CarolynD
e-mail: themecakes@aol.com
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
I agree with Tricia - I've been wanting to try them, too, but have been
discouraged by what I'm reading here... I had already sent away for
Martha's Petit Four kit - hope I don't end up wasting the money. I
plan on trying the Wilton poured fondant and was planning on charging
about $1.00 apiece. I'm just starting out and had heard that this was
a popular item to sell in my area.

Date: November 28th, 1998 02:55:34
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Petite Fors
hi carolynd;

i'm really sorry you have been discouraged after spending $$$ :(
i have only tryed them twice and both times it was *lots!* of work --
**however**, after what i have learned here (just after the last time i
tried) i would try them again.

to me the one most important tip is **keep them small!**.

i can see where this will make all the difference. i had used cookie
cutters to make mine so they were about 3" hearts. this is much too
big to cover easily w/a poured fondant or choco. 1" is ideal, but no
more than 2" tops. i really think it will be much easier that way and
hope you will give it a try.
please do let us know how it goes.
lynne

Date: November 29th, 1998 11:17:27
From: Judy
e-mail: cakewhiz@ap.net
Subject: Re: Help-Sheet Cake pricing-Southern California
Dear Steph: My main business is wedding cakes but occasionally I will
do a party sheet cake. I have a minimum size of l/3 sheet which is an
ll inch by l5 inch. I charge $30. Half sheet is $40. 2/3 sheet is $60
and a full sheet is $75. These are split with a filling and decorated
with shell border trim and roses. If the customer wants a special
drawing on the cake, I charge $7.50 to $l0.00 for the drawing. By the
way, I live in northern California.

Date: November 29th, 1998 03:17:14
From: Steph
e-mail: nagol@gte.net
Subject: Help-Sheet Cake pricing-Southern California
I live in southern California and am interested in what you are all
charging for sheet cakes here. I'm having difficulty getting info from
local bakeries. The bakery I used to use (before I started doing my
own cakes) is very pricey (but excellent, you get what you pay for).
Taking a little vacation, I'll check back on Thursday. Thanks, Steph

Date: November 30th, 1998 08:12:35
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Yule Logs
What size are these Yule Logs? That price seems a little too pricy to
me. I live in Montana, maybe that is why.

Date: November 30th, 1998 05:09:26
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Yule Logs
hi shirley;
as has been said many times before it does depend somewhat on where you
are....big city vs. rual etc.
here in central calif i'd get $20, maybe even $25 for it.
lynne

Date: November 30th, 1998 04:58:46
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Misc. Candies
hi michelle;
most of the time the figure used is 3 1/2 times the cost of
ingredients.
now when we say ingred...we mean *everything* used like box, or other
pkg'ing, besides choco, nuts, flavoring etc., etc.
i would charge by the pound on all of them.

i just did the multiplying and that comes out too much....i don't think
many will pay $15 or more per # :(
so i guess you're going to have to come up w/a price on your own....one
that you think people will pay -- say in the neighborhood of $9-10.
lynne

Date: November 30th, 1998 05:00:39
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Misc. Candies--more thoughts

Date: November 30th, 1998 05:04:18
From: lynne
e-mail:
Subject: Re: Misc. Candies--more thoughts

boy i keep hitting the wrong key today :( -- sorry

as soon as i sent my reply i thought of something else.
pricing by the # isn't all that wise unless you have a 'legal' scale
and i don't think very many of us do so figure out the price per # you
want, fill a box and sell it by the box.....don't mention the weight.

lots of people do that around here w/fresh fruit & veggies in the
summer. you get just over a # in the bag but it is always sold by the
bag not by the #.
lynne

Date: November 30th, 1998 02:56:45
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: Re: Yule Logs
Where would I find this recipe? I looked in the archives, but I don't
seem to know how to get what I need from the archives. Please help.

Date: November 30th, 1998 03:17:24
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Misc. Candies
How much do you figure for your time?

Date: November 30th, 1998 02:32:06
From: Lisa
e-mail: lisascakes@aol.com
Subject: Re: Misc. Candies
Hi,

I don't do the carmels or raisins, but fudge I charge by the pound. I get $9 per pound with nuts. $8.50 without.

What you need to do is figure out how much it costs you to make it then add for your time.

-Lisa

Date: November 30th, 1998 02:19:54
From: Shirley C.
e-mail: expressivecreations@lj.net
Subject: Yule Logs
I'll keep it simple! How much should I chage for a yule log.

I've only made a few, for friends and now I've gotten request for more
for christmas.

I used Marida's recipe using the angle food mix, so I've been able to
do differant flavors and differant fillings. They have turned out
great. The cost of the roll itself and filling and icing is just about
$4.00. Then some I need a box, so just around $5.00. But I have spent a
lot of time doing chocolate leaves. A method I read on the board of
coating the back of real leaves with melted chocolate. When you remove
the real leaves the remaining chocolate leaves are so realistic.
Everyone loves them. I also wrote a short paper to include with each
log, on the history of the Yule Log.

Thanks,

Shirley C.

Date: November 30th, 1998 10:35:00
From: Michelle
e-mail: mcurran@mtech.edu
Subject: Misc. Candies
How much do you charge for caramels, fudge and chocolate covered
raisins? Do you charge by the piece or by the pound?

Date: November 30th, 1998 09:36:38
From: laura
e-mail: jaygien@aol.com
Subject: Re: Birdhouse cake pricing
The only comment I would make about this is she should have been told
the amount up front. I tell people I'm expensive and I give them a
cost up front but only after I've worked on the actual cost to me. I
made a similar cake this weekend for 80 people so I did a 12X18 and a
small round cake and 2 extra house pans (mine was a mailbox). I
charged $70. They were more than willing to pay it. Since you were
doing this for a "friend" I would have definitely charged her for the
works, especially for the things you will not use again. However If I
can reuse it then its only fair to ask for those things back and not
charge for them.