WE ARE CHATTING ABOUT CAKE DECORATING..9-10 PM EST...HOPE YOU ALL ENJOY... FEEL FREE TO JOIN THE FUN... WE'LL BE HERE THE 2ND & 4TH TUESDAYS. ON THE 1ST & 3RD TUESDAYS WE'LL CHAT LIVE OUT ON THE WEB. MORE ABOUT THAT NEXT TUESDAY.  Or you can find out more from my web site: http://w3.one.net/~proicer/index.html

LATER WE WILL HAVE 'OPEN MIKE' AND WE WOULD LIKE IT IF YOU WOULD ADD YOUR INPUT, PLEASE..... IN THE MEANTIME, YOU ARE MOST WELCOME TO ADD COMMENTS AND TO ASK QUESTIONS.

At first it can be pretty difficult knowing what to charge for that special cake. The first consideration may be what the going rate is in your area. For this you can only call bakeries or ask fellow decorators. The latter would be far the best source if you are lucky enough to know any others doing what you do. Otherwise, you'd need to just call around.

YOU SHOULD ALWAYS CHARGE MORE THAN THE LOCAL BAKERY RIGHT FROM THE START. You take more time and your cakes taste better - probably, too. You will probably advance your skills more appropriately too. Remember, people look you up only because they want something very special and are particular. This is why you should never let a cake go out that is over-baked etc. Otherwise, it is easier for them just to pick up a cake at the grocery. People want quality from you. So charge for it!

PRICING SMALL CAKES: This is NOT easy. Always consider the paper goods (doily, cardboard & box) a part of this basic price.

But lets try to come up with figures...
   First make yourself a list of basic sizes. Choose an appropriate price for each cake. Then, for additional decorating you might want to decide on the cost.
   You'll probably keep on hand edible 'rocks' tiny sprinkle flowers, edible glitter, piping gel or other products. I don't charge extra for these with the cakes, I just make sure I charge enough for all cakes that it is worth it to me to 'dress it up' with these products.
EXTRAS:
   Jot down what it is worth to add flowers ALL OVER the cake instead of the usual 6-8 etc.
   Do they want a collectable figure incorporated into a scenery, trees, etc? For the figures, we add charges of  whatever the retail price happens to be. For 'trees' we add the cost (they aren't costly).
   Do they want an edible picture? We charge $7.00 extra for edible pictures.
   Maybe they need more servings and you add...say a 'bible' cake on a full sheet cake. For this we don't charge as if it is 2 separate cakes (since no extra boxes are involved). I would probably charge about $10-12.00 more. It won't make a lot more decorating for you since the big cake is almost covered by the smaller one. I usually charge about $15.00 for a 1-mix cake, so this gives them a reduction of $2-4.00 and is fair to both you and your customer.
   The small Singles! Pans are wonderful to spruce up an otherwise 'dead' scenery too. Make a 'flower' on a BIG cake etc...so many ideas for uses!

WEDDING CAKE PRICES: Prices vary widely from cities to rural areas. In New York City a decorator may start at $4-5.00 per serving. Here in Hamilton Ohio, we would start at more like $1-2.00 per serving and up. (That would be VERY basic decorating and would be VERY plain for $1.00 per serving). I charge $2.00 per serving mostly. But I have over 30 years of experience, classes and skills behind me too. In calculating the serving cost, I would take experience into consideration.

RAISE THE PRICE: Prices go higher every year! We consider raising our prices regularly in January. (Slow time and we CAN do it at that time). Besides, if you raise prices just a little bit every year you will never find yourself raising them noticeably and making your customers upset with you. For wedding cakes, you may need to go back and re-evaluate your prices each year. But DO raise them some too. If there has been a drastic price increase in cake mix or other vital ingredients you may want to raise prices that year just a little bit more than you usually do.

Also consider your level of experience when calculating what to charge. I don't know about you, but if I'd charged top dollar when I first started I'd have been so up tight about my abilities to do the cake to suit myself that I'd have given up. Keep doing more cakes, taking classes, reading and you will be worth more. Don't sell yourself short!

SPECIALTY DESIGN: The first thing that comes to mind here for me is ROLLED FONDANT. For this I would start with charging extra only if the icing cost more than the buttercream standard. Made from scratch it won't cost more. Store-bought, it WILL be more. I price each rolled fondant cake individually, according to the amount of work involved. If it is basic decorating, I charge $2.00 per serving. Some things take a LOT more time. Such as curtains or lace points. For these, I add $1.00 per serving EACH technique used.

GUMPASTE/HAND-MADE FLOWERS: For these you might start off by charging slightly more than the going rate for real flowers. This is NOT enough. But you should increase your prices along with your skill and experience.

AUTOMATION/MIXES/INSTANT HELPS: We didn't raise prices when we started using pan spray...it was faster so we absorbed that cost. Nor did we raise them because we started having our icing made for us in a large warehouse and delivered to us in buckets. This certainly cost more but we figure that the volume that we can do now makes up for the additional costs.

Start off cheap and raise prices with your reputation!

GOOO8:  Hello Everyone Great to see you all again at ICES!
GDFD Pwd:  Great to see you guys here tonight.  First it is good to know all made it home safely
GDFDolores:  Did you all see your pictures I sent up???
GDFD Pwd:  I wish I had had time to check anything on the web.....
Bridal1:  Hope everyone enjoyed Kansas City and the convention!
Kakdecor8r:  it was wonderful!!
GDFDolores:  Bridal...it was just wonderful! My kids loved it too
Bridal1:  Sorry about the hot weather, but we couldn't control that.
Kakdecor8r:  you forget I'm from Texas, LOL
LISASCAKES:  wish I was there maybe next year
Kakdecor8r:  was it hot there?
Bridal1:  very hot!
Swtelegnt:  Bridal, It was wonderful, My Husband went with me, and he now
want to attend every year!
Kakdecor8r:  ya'll did a wonderful job, was a good first ICES impression for me
GOOO8:  I just lost sleep but am trying to catch up on it now
GDFDolores:  Lots of walking but not too bad
Kakdecor8r:  I miss everyone already!
GOOO8:  Me, too, cake convention withdrawals
GDFDolores:  I've been playing 'catch up' ever since...about to do it
Swtelegnt:  Yes, the wost part of getting away from it all, is comming back
and trying to catch up on everything you got away from!
GDFDolores:  we all worked extra hard last week
Bridal1:  Thanks, we had a great team and they all worked hard.
GOOO8:  I had a fabulous time ladies.  Thanks to each and every one that participated in any way.
GDFD Pwd:  I think we now have some new ICES convention promoters.  :-)
GOOO8:  undoubtedly

GDFD Pwd:  My first priority is that my cakes taste wonderful. Second is that they look good to
Jjcpmiller:  love to do run sugar work and duplicate tablecloths

TP4JB:  Do most home bakers deliver?  If so, is that included in the cost?
Bridal1:  I live 4 miles from any town and I only deliver wedding cakes.
GDFD Pwd:  Birthday cakes are small enough that customers can pick them up. That is most of the time
GDFDolores:  I WANT to deliver the fancy ones so I figure delivery in the cost mostly
Bridal1:  If I deliver birthday cakes, I tack on a fee
TP4JB:  I would rather deliver them.  What is a standard charge?
GDFDolores:  15.00 is our area TP...among the bakeries
TP4JB:  $15.00 for delivery?
GOOO8:  $10 to $15 for Central Florida, too.
Kakdecor8r:  how many miles does that include?
GDFDolores:  yes TP...within a short distance - charge more for out of town most - do
TP4JB:  Dolores, I'm only 30 miles from you.  I can't see charging $15
GOOO8:  you consider, your time, plus your distance, your wear and tear on a vehicle.
GDFDolores:  I charge that if its a simple cake and they should have picked it up TP... and that is the going rate in Cincy
GDFD Pwd:  Don't want to do or deliver many BD cakes
Bridal1:  I charge $5 if I go into our town.  $30 extra to go into KC
Kakdecor8r:  most people pick them up at my house
GOOO8:  I have learned not to be afraid to ask for your price
GDFD Pwd:  $1.50 per mile outside of my local area.
Bridal1:  Mine, too Kak except for wedding cakes.
GOOO8:  You charge to cut the cake, too, typically.
GDFD Teri:  I hate to deliver--anything can happen
GDFDolores:  I don't deliver small BD cakes at all
Kakdecor8r:  yes, then I charge a delivery fee
GDFD Pwd:  To deliver a BD cake it would have to be very large and expensive
TP4JB:  I guess I just want a more "professional" image and my home just doesn't portray that.
LISASCAKES:  I deliver just about everything. At least to where I work. Customers are either on the way to work or on the way home
 

GDFD Pwd:  Nothing new since ICES - Wait till next week.  A real doosy of a cake this weekend.
Kakdecor8r:  a wedding cake?
GDFD Pwd:  Wedding and grooms cakes
GDFDolores:  Loved yours & Brooks castle cakes!!!!
GDFD Pwd:  Those were fun.
GDFDolores:  they were really nice cakes Pwd  - Joyce wanted to make the castle but my 'other' picts. aren't back yet
GDFD Pwd:  Have you plugged your camera into the VCR yet and looked at the photos?
GDFDolores:  No Pwd...have you??? I dnlded them at least
GDFD Pwd:  Yep - at least 6 times with different people
GDFDolores:  Gosh Pwd...I need to try that!

TP4JB:  What about for corporate customers?  Like Realtors.  They love the edible image cakes.
GOOO8:  The bakery I went to charged me $12.50 just to scan and make the picture for me
GDFDolores:  GOOO you may as well have me do it & snd it...about $9.00
GOOO8:  Next time I will.  I had a place in town lined up but they lacked the proper adapter for the port and had to refer me to another place. Hubby's 50th birthday party this past weekend.
GDFDolores:  At least they would do it for you
GDFD Pwd:  Did you do something fantastic GOOOO
GOOO8:  I had fun with the wafer paper for my first time...I was quite
pleased with my efforts and the whole family was very impressed.  Used Geraldine's Music Note stencil mat to add to it so he's a deejay
GDFDolores:  I didn't get any mats...so busy
GDFD Pwd:  I have to order some of those mats to.

GDFDolores:  loved that book w/wafer paper at ices!
GDFD Pwd:  I have made fishing flies, hooks, and etc from wafer paper this week
Kakdecor8r:  am trying some of mari's peonies! out of chocolate
GDFD Pwd:  Waiting for my fondant lifter before ordering the mats from Geraldine

GDFDolores:  guess this year the 'talk' was the edible pearls???
Kakdecor8r:  an still waiting for mine to arrive in the mail
GOOO8:  By the time I made my mind up, they were sold out on the pearls...
Kakdecor8r:  me too, so ordered it instead

GDFD Pwd:  I sure hated that I missed out on the meeting with all of you. At least I got in on the tail end for a few minutes
GDFDolores:  us too Pwd...we'll try to start planning earlier next time

GDFDolores:  wedding pricing...
GDFD Pwd:  Mine start at $2.50 for very plain wedding cakes.
GDFDolores:  See...Pwd gets it and SO can others...got to build a reputation first!
Kakdecor8r:  i charge by the pound
Kimera3040:  the pound?
GDFDolores:  by the pound???
Kakdecor8r:  yes, I have a chart that I use. It tells how many pound different cakes weight approx
GOOO8:  really Bonnie?
GOOO8:  I decided the last time I made a double layer 12x18 it was too little
money and would charge more next time
GDFDolores:  by the pound is interesting
Kakdecor8r:  will send you the chart if you'd like
GDFD Pwd:  By the pound is different.  But that would be only for eating cakes.
GOOO8:  Bonnie, does that come out relatively close to how we charge by the slice?
GDFD Pwd:  Certainly would not cover the time consuming detail work my customers want
Kakdecor8r:  have never charged by the slice so I don't know
GDFDolores:  Pwd...by the pound wouldn't get you enough $s
Kakdecor8r:  no, not for one of pwd's cakes!!
GDFD Pwd:  Not enough $$$$'s is right    Not for detail work
GDFDolores:  $15.00 per pound Pwd???
NYC RobM:  You can work for days and people don’t appreciate it!!!
GOOO8:  that is so true NYC
NYC RobM:  I mean, it's not like  just whipping up a bowl of Jell-O
GDFD Pwd:  That is sometimes just part of the Learning experience
NYC RobM:  GDF? I enjoy learning, but get impatient sometimes

GOOO8:  I tried the sugar syrup method and it worked nicely to moisten an over-baked cake
Kakdecor8r:  am trying some of mari's flowers!
GDFDolores:  interesting GOOO...I've also heard that some people use that on the shaped character cakes to seal them
GOOO8:  I over-baked my cake and could tell by handling it so made some fresh syrup and nobody knew!
Kimera3040:  I make a great lemon jello cake

NYC RobM:  Im having enough trouble with styrofoam layers
Kimera3040:  the syrup won't help those Rob
NYC RobM:  actually Kimera, if you soak styrofoam in alcohol it works
Bridal1:  styrofoam in alcohol - for what?????????
NYC RobM:  Brid? it softens the plasticy look to the surface- just dispose of the alcohol

GOOO8:  Oo, that's good info Dolores on the curtains or lace points...had no idea you could add that
GDFDolores:  you have to...it adds hours to doing it.
Kimera3040:  I charge per lace point!
NYC RobM:  per lace point?
GDFDolores:  per lace point PJ?
GOOO8:  I can see I have a lot of catching up to do with all of you, but I hope to.

OnlineHost:  I Do Cakes has entered the room.
GOOO8:  Is Marida I Do Cakes???
GDFD Pwd:  Hey Kelly glad you found us
GDFD Pwd:  Kelly is I Do Cakes
Bridal1:  No Marida isn't on AOL
I Do Cakes:  Hello everyone!
GDFDolores:  Marida should be! LOL
Kakdecor8r:  hi. ido
GOOO8:  Hi Kelly
GDFDolores:  Marida is sweet
GDFD Pwd:  She had to have one of those pins because that is her screen name
Kakdecor8r:  she sure is!!
Kimera3040:  I can't believe Marida is 70!
GOOO8:  I loved her, she was very nice
Bridal1:  I lost my pin!
GDFDolores:  she has SO much energy
GDFD Pwd:  I wore mine Sunday and someone thought I was you Kelly
Bridal1:  No one turned it in so someone has one that doesn't belong to them!
GOOO8:  Oh, no Bridal, so did Marida
Kakdecor8r:  everyone comments on mine!
I Do Cakes:  Earlene gave me one of those beautiful pins!
GDFDolores:  I love my pin
Swtelegnt:  one lady offered me $100. for my pin
GDFDolores:  100.00! wow...got to tell Marida
GOOO8:  WOOOOWWW

Kakdecor8r:  still seems funny being here on tues!
GDFDolores:  ...but next week on the web...lets all talk about ICES??? Okay?
GDFD Pwd:  I would love to hear from you guys who went to convention next chat.
GDFDolores:  More relaxing Kak?
Swtelegnt:  you bet Dol, we will!

ICES:
GDFD Pwd:  The things you liked and didn't like
GDFDolores:  okay...when we can all get together on the web...
Kakdecor8r:  I loved everything!!!

GDFDolores:  we'll just do open mike and all chat
Kimera3040:  oooooooh, we'll never shut up!
GDFDolores:  I liked all of it LOL
Kimera3040:  we never shut up now!
Bridal1:  Most of us do love it all - only a few ever complain about any convention.
GOOO8:  I've added several new names to my Buddy List
GDFD Pwd:  Thats OK - In the new chat room they cant get rid of us.  LOL
GDFDolores:  isn't this all so wonderful!
Kakdecor8r:  I told people you decorated a wedding cake in 1 hour, and no one believed me!!
GDFDolores:  right...its OUR room there
GDFDolores:  Be sure to download the software and get ready
MHohimer:  Dol, I need an easy way to find you on the web - had trouble trying to download
Kimera3040:  about time they realized how important we are!
Bridal1:  I haven't tried yet.
GDFDolores:  Mh...email me when you run into problems
GDFDolores:  But go to http://w3.one.net/~proicer/index.html and follow my help sheet as much as you can.
MHohimer:  Will do.
Kakdecor8r:  really, told them it takes me that long to frost it!!
Swtelegnt:  my husband set mine all up for me, but he want to chat some times too!
Bridal1:  I printed it out Millie so I could figure it out.
GDFDolores:  BE SURE we all get on that same irc.dal...or whatever it is
GDFDolores:  we'll let him...he's going to be hooked on this yet SW
Swtelegnt:  he all ready is!  the convention hooked him!
GOOO8:  Do I have this straight:  2d Tuesday in the Kitchen; 4th Tuesday on the web?
GDFDolores:  we're chatting about next week's chat out on the web - 2nd & 4th Tues here - 1st & 3rd on the web
GDFD Pwd:  I haven't managed to get into the room yet either.  But working from a Mac makes it different for me to maneuver.   Hope I find my way into the same room as the rest of you
GDFDolores:  Pwd...email Shirley - I think she made it in already - she has a Mac too.
Swtelegnt:  Dol & Pwd, what about the 5th Tuesday of this month
GDFDolores:  no 5th Tues...but maybe we could just go to our 'web' room if we all want to
GOOO8:  Dee is there something on your site directing us to the proper web location?
GDFDolores:  GOOO...yes...go to my private web site and see LIVE CHATS...and the link to the HELP file... We all must dnld free software. Virginia found that for us while we were at ices
GDFDolores:  Can we all use our real names on the web chat????...welll...except for GOOO and PJ LOL...they are stuck with those cute names LOL
Kakdecor8r:  it wuldn't let me use my name
Swtelegnt:  the room wouldn't take my real name, so I put in this one!
NOTE…if the room won’t let you use your real name, add a number to the end like ‘7’ or ‘77’

Bridal1:  Did anyone buy one of the screensavers at convention?  I think we could have sold more if we had had a computer showing it.
GDFDolores:  I got a screen saver...haven't gotten to try it yet
Kakdecor8r:  no, is it good?
Bridal1:  I thought so - was our show cake.
CarolA5238:  I bought anything and everything!
GDFD Pwd:  I spent way to much money myself.

Kakdecor8r:  took tons of pictures of it tho!!
CarolA5238:  I got some pictures back and I think they turned out pretty good.
Kakdecor8r:  haven't gotten mine back yet
GDFDolores:  Carol...can you scan them?
PWeston10:  mine were okay, I realized several cakes I missed
GOOO8:  Thanks D.  At least I'll have my info right to pass on to others
PWeston10:  like Keiths
Kakdecor8r:  pj's were sure good that she sent
Bridal1:  I must have 15 rolls at least, but haven't taken them in yet
Kakdecor8r:  I took 7
GDFDolores:  I had 10 rolls...25 each, plus the digital camera of at least 200!
Swtelegnt:  I got my pictures back today, except 1 roll, that they lost.  The pictures a wonderful!
PWeston10:  and Janice, yours  was whacked, can you send me a copy of it?
GOOO8:  I had all my pictures inserted into their indiv. pockets by Thurs. nite
Kakdecor8r:  lol, Janice
GDFDolores:  BKeith can help you with the chat room too. He is computer savvy
Bridal1:  Some people are fast!
CarolA5238:  I don't have a scanner yet but David can do some at work and they'll be there.
GDFDolores:  lost! Oh now!
Kakdecor8r:  they may find them mari
GDFDolores:  okay Carol...we can't wait!
PWeston10:  mine are in a book too..my kids aren't..but my cakes are..LOL
Kakdecor8r:  my cakes always go into 2 books
CarolA5238:  What format would you like (tif, gif, bmp, or jpg)?
Kakdecor8r:  one for home and the other is at work!
GDFDolores:  jpg Carol
GDFDolores:  jpg will be smallest files and you can only do gif or jpg on the web
CarolA5238:  Okay, he can do that.
GDFDolores:  But I can convert them if you send them in a zip file if you need me to
GDFDolores:  I got a wonderful cute picture of PJ & Sheila Baker
CarolA5238:  JPG is no problem...
GDFDolores:  okay Carol...fine

GOOO8:  Hey, ya'll, Sheila (Icing Wiz) turns 40 this weekend so send her an email.
GDFDolores:  (Icing Wiz)
Bridal1:  which day GOOOOO
PWeston10:  gee, at least we know its her BIRTHDAY! unlike OTHERS in here!
Kakdecor8r:  who wants to make the cake???
GOOO8:  It is either Sat. or Sun. I don't know for sure.
GDFDolores:  LOL...are you speaking to me PJ
GOOO8:  but her party is Sat.
GDFDolores:  I celebrated with a HUGE banquet LOL
Kakdecor8r:  YOUR birthday was on Sat, Dol???
GDFDolores:  yep the 31st...ices banquet : ) what a celebration that was!
Bridal1:  Sorry, we didn't know Dolores!  We could have had the Diamonds sing to you!
GDFD Pwd:  Not nice your daughters didn't clue us in.  We could have had a little fun with it
GDFDolores:  I thought someone told when they said congrats on Anniversaries and BD's
I Do Cakes:  That's probably why she kept it secret.
GDFDolores:  well, I think that was the best BD I ever had anyway. It was so wonderful meeting all of you

GOOO8:  what other borders might one do to dress up the basketweave
PWeston10:  anything that tickles your fancy!
Bridal1:  A rope GOOO with the 18 tip??
Kakdecor8r:  usually do a rope
GDFDolores:  GOOO. I really like to do rope borders on those
Bridal1:  I just do a shell around the top and bottom of the basketweave.
GDFD Pwd:  Do a fondant rope - that is real nice with basketweave
GOOO8:  Aside from the standard shell and reverse shell and rope, I didn't know if any others would be appropriate
Swtelegnt:  Goo, try a 3 swirl, the a tail, ( don’t remember what they call it )
GOOO8:  A fondant rope would be different for me to do.  Thanks.
Kakdecor8r:  would you roll into a thin rope and just twist it to do that?
GDFD Pwd:  Two thin ropes and then gently twist them together
Kakdecor8r:  am gonna learn fondant too before next ices!
GDFDolores:  2 ropes to roll
GDFD Pwd:  marbled fondant in ropes is neat
GOOO8:  ooo, even better, blending two colors perhaps
Kakdecor8r:  think I have found a lady to teach me gumpaste too!!
Swtelegnt:  You do 3 rotations above the border, (like a reverse shell) then pull out the tail